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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 BMW 5-Series (F10) Forums General 5-Series Sedan and Wagon (F10 / F11) Forum Autocar slags F10 ride without VDC
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      04-18-2010, 10:06 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
hi nfnc, with the sports transmission/steering wheel option only, I recall (if correctly) my SE commented that fuel consumption would go up if the f10 is on sport mode most of the the time. Also, would there be more wear and tear on the lower gears?
Your SE is not a petrolhead

In the "Sport" mode, generally, the transmission will try to hold on to lower gear for a particular speed and change up at a higher engine speed. The converse is true for the "Normal" mode. So, it is inevitable that the fuel consumption would be worse in "Sport" mode. In any case, you have the option to be green or to drive with a grin on your face.
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      04-19-2010, 02:13 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nfnc View Post
He tried it with 18" and 19" wheels, and found the one on 19" better. See below.
True but the car with 19" has some extra chassis option/s (we think option 2VA?)
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      04-19-2010, 03:20 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
No tricks on the 530d... the 535i spec confuses. The way I interpreted the way it behaved, has some 'electronic chassis' adjustments.

There wasn't a 'comfort' setting, so no VDC. For the 535i we must have option 2VA, to get active roll bars (Dynamic Drive) and VDC, agree?

The car had the sport box, so has Drive Dynamic Control. (Brochure name and states with 2TB you get the Drive Dynamic Control option). Pushing sport clearly changes the chassis some way. We looked at the user manual and it seemed to indicate we had Dynamic Drive, also the point I mentioned that the I-Drive setting listed 'steering and chassis' as an option, which is where it was set. You could toggle through other setting options.

For Drive Dynamic Control, BMW state:

So what the 535i had and how the chassis tightened up for rough surfaces, which the car clearly did, I'm trying to understand.

How does a chassis tighten up without Dynamic Drive and/or VDC. What is 'electronic' in the chassis, outside those systems?

HighlandPete
From HighlandPete's post, the 535 on 19" wheels did not have the "Comfort" mode on the Driving Dynamic Control switch. In theory, this would mean that the car was not equipped with VDC/adaptive damping. It remains unclear how the Driving Dynamic Control (with only Normal/Sport mode marked) can affect the car the way it did, as experienced by him. I understand that he would be able to check for sure when he visits his dealer this week.
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      04-19-2010, 04:09 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nfnc View Post
From HighlandPete's post, the 535 on 19" wheels did not have the "Comfort" mode on the Driving Dynamic Control switch. In theory, this would mean that the car was not equipped with VDC/adaptive damping. It remains unclear how the Driving Dynamic Control (with only Normal/Sport mode marked) can affect the car the way it did, as experienced by him. I understand that he would be able to check for sure when he visits his dealer this week.
You are reading me correct. I'm at the garage tomorrow, so will try and find out as much as possible. Like I said, also hope to get a second look at the I-Drive configuration.

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      04-19-2010, 04:16 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nfnc View Post
In the "Sport" mode, generally, the transmission will try to hold on to lower gear for a particular speed and change up at a higher engine speed. The converse is true for the "Normal" mode. So, it is inevitable that the fuel consumption would be worse in "Sport" mode. In any case, you have the option to be green or to drive with a grin on your face.
To me, the only downside to running the sport mode, it locked out 8th gear. So even at motorway speeds, wouldn't let me select 8th.

So logically, even cruising you'll use more fuel, as well as through the gears.

So we get even more complicated, if you want the slightly tauter feel of the steering, etc, but are just cruising. There will be a compromise... unless the car can be configured slightly different. Back to that I-Drive menu.

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      04-19-2010, 04:38 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
To me, the only downside to running the sport mode, it locked out 8th gear. So even at motorway speeds, wouldn't let me select 8th.

So logically, even cruising you'll use more fuel, as well as through the gears.

So we get even more complicated, if you want the slightly tauter feel of the steering, etc, but are just cruising. There will be a compromise... unless the car can be configured slightly different. Back to that I-Drive menu.

HighlandPete
Yes, the point made by my SE is that with VDC and i-drive configuration, one can configure the chassis alone without affecting the transmission (instead of only having the toggle button on sport mode without the i-drive chassis configuration). I would prefer to tighten the chassis rather than revving the transmission for usual driving.

HighlandPete, I believe you will, but can you pls check whether the i-drive on the 535i only shows the chassis picture on the screen (without any ability to configure it), or whether it can configure tightening it (when it may not have the VDC?); and whether it has VDC, and if so, why not the comfort mode? if not, why the suspension appeared different? Thanks

ps I have asked my SE to check on the display 535i which has only sport/normal on the toggle button but the i-drive can access the chassis.

Last edited by bm323; 04-19-2010 at 10:08 AM..
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      04-19-2010, 10:31 AM   #95
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Just read the What Car comparison of the F10 vs Jaguar XF vs Mercedes E-class. The F10 was a 530d on standard suspension with 19" wheels (and not the 18" version in the Autocar test). On the ride and handling section, they had this to say:

"...but its body tends to lurch left and right as you go from corner to corner. Things are little better on the motorway, where undulations cause it to bob and float like a ship in a storm."

Seems like the standard suspension is suspect then?

For those who have tried the E60 on the sport suspension but with smaller sized or non-RFT wheels, would an F10 on M-sport suspension with 17" wheels alleviate the body roll/lack of body control issue yet retain a modicum of comfort?

All hypothetical, of course, since no one has really tried the M-sport suspension here. However, on another forum, an owner who has just taken delivery has commented that the F10 with the M-sport suspension on 18" wheels is more comfortable than the E60 sport suspension.
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      04-19-2010, 10:42 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nfnc View Post
Just read the What Car comparison of the F10 vs Jaguar XF vs Mercedes E-class. The F10 was a 530d on standard suspension with 19" wheels (and not the 18" version in the Autocar test). On the ride and handling section, they had this to say:

"...but its body tends to lurch left and right as you go from corner to corner. Things are little better on the motorway, where undulations cause it to bob and float like a ship in a storm."

Seems like the standard suspension is suspect then?

For those who have tried the E60 on the sport suspension but with smaller sized or non-RFT wheels, would an F10 on M-sport suspension with 17" wheels alleviate the body roll/lack of body control issue yet retain a modicum of comfort?

All hypothetical, of course, since no one has really tried the M-sport suspension here. However, on another forum, an owner who has just taken delivery has commented that the F10 with the M-sport suspension on 18" wheels is more comfortable than the E60 sport suspension.
I think the standard suspenion is tuned for 17" non-RFT's (as these are std in most EU countries)

Yes, I had an E60 with sport suspension and non-RFT 16" wheels and it was fine (yes it did roll a lttle but it did not bob/float at all)
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      04-19-2010, 10:43 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nfnc View Post
However, on another forum, an owner who has just taken delivery has commented that the F10 with the M-sport suspension on 18" wheels is more comfortable than the E60 sport suspension.
Please post link to this?
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      04-19-2010, 10:44 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Hood View Post
I ordered the M Suspension (704) so it's available overhere.(Dunno about the rest of the continent, Scandinavia, France, Spain, Italy, Eastern Europe? Anybody?)
As soon as I have my car(ETA may 21st 2010) I'll write something about it.

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Please post once your car has arrived.
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      04-19-2010, 10:47 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
You are reading me correct. I'm at the garage tomorrow, so will try and find out as much as possible. Like I said, also hope to get a second look at the I-Drive configuration.

HighlandPete
Get them to look up the fitted options codes please?
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      04-19-2010, 10:49 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
To me, the only downside to running the sport mode, it locked out 8th gear. So even at motorway speeds, wouldn't let me select 8th.

So logically, even cruising you'll use more fuel, as well as through the gears.

So we get even more complicated, if you want the slightly tauter feel of the steering, etc, but are just cruising. There will be a compromise... unless the car can be configured slightly different. Back to that I-Drive menu.

HighlandPete
Yet another reason why BMW need to provide guidance on all the chassis options and how they combine to suite driver/road needs. Without we will make big mistakes.
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      04-19-2010, 11:11 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carl_d View Post
Please post link to this?
Its here: http://forums.5series.net/topic/9728...35ia-pictures/ Owner mentions that he has had 3 E60s with the M-Sport suspension.

Also, LSs1Power here has tested the 523with the standard suspension ( http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=375887 ) and found it to be soft with noticeable body roll. However, this was on a race track so may not reflect normal road usage.
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      04-19-2010, 01:20 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nfnc View Post
There is another test from what appears to be the exact same configuration (down to the exterior and interior colours ) with 18" RFTs (staggered combo) and standard suspension.

See: http://www.carenthusiast.com/reviews...ic+saloon.html
Some love it, some will hate it ... As it is always been.
I had a 3 series (2002 model) which handled better than mine 325i (2006) and current E61 (2007).

"BMW has taken the brave step of risking the wrath of corner-mongers by eschewing firm sportiness in favour of cosseting compliance this time around. But how many people really care about on-the-limit feel in a diesel executive saloon? It's you, the regional manager; you on the motorway; you with hundreds of miles a week to do; you with two kids to transport at the weekend; you who doesn't care about limited-slip differentials on a wet Tuesday morning. You'll be living with the Five every day

BMW has set the car up for you. The Five is no longer a grown up 3 Series; it's a grown down Seven. It rides beautifully, with a suppleness that takes most road nuances and hides them from you. It deals with tarmac like Jack Charlton circa 1966 dealt with his alopecia: brushes over it. Of course, that's to the detriment of outright cornering feel; there's obvious weight transfer during acceleration, braking and cornering. There's still a very talented, balanced car here, it's just one that you must dig a little deeper to find and enjoy.

We discovered that over a 1,200-mile Southern France to Northern England odyssey. Not once during those two days did the Five ever get uncomfortable. Our car sat on standard springs with a standard steering

"


I hated the handling of the E61 on RFT (17-inch). Replaced them with nRFT 17 Michelin, but it is still so-so ...
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Last edited by Erasmus; 04-19-2010 at 01:40 PM..
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      04-19-2010, 01:37 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carl_d View Post
I've emailed BMW UK customer service with these suggestions, lets see what they say? I've included the link to this thread so fire away people.
Resposne from BMW UK customer service... may be its me but I cannot see the items we are discussing for the F10 listed at the link provided below, namly: Adaptive Drive, Intgeral Active Steering and VDC!

Thank you for contacting BMW Customer Information. I am sorry to read that you are unhappy with the information that is provided on our website.

For information on the technologies within our vehicles I would recommend visiting our technology guide on the link provided below.

http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/t...ide/start.html

Alternatively you may wish to contact our local BMW Dealership who will also be in the position to provide you with detailed information.

Your nearest BMW Dealership can be found by using the dealer locator facility on our website. I have included a link to this facility for your convenience:

http://www.bmw.co.uk/bmwuk/dealerlocator/0,,___,00.html

Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any further queries.
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Last edited by carl_d; 04-19-2010 at 02:06 PM..
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      04-19-2010, 01:50 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carl_d View Post
Resposne from BMW UK customer service... may its me but I cannot see the items we are discussing for the F10 listed at the link provided below, namly: Adaptive Drive, Intgeral Active Steering and VDC!

Thank you for contacting BMW Customer Information. I am sorry to read that you are unhappy with the information that is provided on our website.

For information on the technologies within our vehicles I would recommend visiting our technology guide on the link provided below.

http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/t...ide/start.html

Alternatively you may wish to contact our local BMW Dealership who will also be in the position to provide you with detailed information.

Your nearest BMW Dealership can be found by using the dealer locator facility on our website. I have included a link to this facility for your convenience:

http://www.bmw.co.uk/bmwuk/dealerlocator/0,,___,00.html

Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any further queries.
Oh, found some info on Adaptive Drive and hidden underneath some info on VDC but nothing for Intergral Active Steering!

Adaptive Drive.
On every curve, on every road surface: Adaptive Drive counteracts the forces that cause body roll. Your BMW handles with outstanding sporting agility, while also ensuring a very comfortable journey for you and your passengers. Body roll is practically eliminated, and winding roads can be enjoyed with a maximum of stability and safety.

The proven effectiveness of BMW's innovative chassis control systems, Dynamic Drive and Variable Damper Control (VDC) work closely together to deliver an outstandingly smooth ride and enhanced agility. Sensors in your BMW permanently monitor vehicle speed, steering-wheel position and the pitch and yaw forces acting on the chassis. Using this data, the system precisely adjusts the stabilisers and the dampers, changing their settings quickly and accurately. This coordinated interaction of dampers and stabilisers counteracts the forces that cause the body to roll or sway. Your BMW hugs the road, delivers neutral self-steering behaviour, outstanding agility and shorter braking distances.
Furthermore, Adaptive Drive adjusts the suspension settings to suit the character of the road surface. Each axle has its own independent motor that can adjust the dampers on each individual wheel. When the road surface under one side of the vehicle differs in character from that on the other side - such as when driving on roads with gravel shoulders - Adaptive Drive instantly adjusts the suspension settings of the wheels on one side to practically eliminate any perceptible unevenness in the road. In addition, you can choose between a more comfortable default setting for the suspension, or a more sporting setting.
Such high-speed calculations and responses demand a high-performance electronics system. Adaptive Drive utilises FlexRay, a high-speed data transfer system that networks sensors, control units and stabilisers.
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      04-19-2010, 01:51 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nfnc View Post
Its here: http://forums.5series.net/topic/9728...35ia-pictures/ Owner mentions that he has had 3 E60s with the M-Sport suspension.

Also, LSs1Power here has tested the 523with the standard suspension ( http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=375887 ) and found it to be soft with noticeable body roll. However, this was on a race track so may not reflect normal road usage.
I've read these threads and find a mixed message once again. As M-Sport suspension is not part of UK tests, we won't know how it works on our roads until we get M-sport models.

I also agree the standard E60 suspension, (like E90 standard suspension), is a mess, once you get to know it. I'd rate the F10 standard suspension better than the standard E60/1, but that won't be hard to beat. And I still say the F10 is flawed in standard form on 18" wheels. I'm not on about suppleness and cornering, but the way the road comes back via the body and steering. I don't want weird steering feedback and vibration in the wheel, or front wheels fighting for the line over poor surfaces.

I'd imagine the F10 M-sport suspension will be better than E60 M-sport suspension, I don't question that at all. But is it as good as the Adaptive Drive package? That could well be another issue.

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      04-19-2010, 02:08 PM   #106
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A better link is:

http://www.bmw.co.uk/specials/5serie...g_control.html

Quote:
Driving Dynamic Control.
How would you like to drive today? Driving Dynamic Control, gives you total control to meet your or your passengers' needs in the BMW 5 Series Saloon.

A touch of the switch next to the gearshift lever changes the level of driving pleasure from NORMAL to SPORT: the engine responds more spontaneously to the accelerator and the eight-speed transmission with Steptronic lets the engine rev high before quickly changing up a gear. At the same time the steering and chassis tighten. Touch the switch again to enter the SPORT + mode where the Dynamic Stability Control allows increased slip to the rear wheels.

The currently active mode is permanently displayed underneath the speedometer, and in the SPORT mode the drive train and chassis settings can be quickly and individually configured using the iDrive Controller for dynamic driving on badly surfaced roads for example.

The COMFORT mode is available with Variable Damping Control which provides both the driver and passengers with maximum comfort on longer journeys.
Hence my confusion... Some 'chassis tightening' appears to happen... from BMW's description... without needing the full VDC package. That is what it says from my reading.

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      04-19-2010, 02:11 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
I've read these threads and find a mixed message once again. As M-Sport suspension is not part of UK tests, we won't know how it works on our roads until we get M-sport models.

I also agree the standard E60 suspension, (like E90 standard suspension), is a mess, once you get to know it. I'd rate the F10 standard suspension better than the standard E60/1, but that won't be hard to beat. And I still say the F10 is flawed in standard form on 18" wheels. I'm not on about suppleness and cornering, but the way the road comes back via the body and steering. I don't want weird steering feedback and vibration in the wheel, or front wheels fighting for the line over poor surfaces.

I'd imagine the F10 M-sport suspension will be better than E60 M-sport suspension, I don't question that at all. But is it as good as the Adaptive Drive package? That could well be another issue.

HighlandPete
I think the best combination for you will be 18" wheels with Adpative Drive (inc VDC). You could ask your dealer to put the 18" wheels on the 535i for a test. (I'm assuming the 535i has option 2VA - Adaptive Drive including VDC???)
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      04-19-2010, 02:13 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
A better link is:

http://www.bmw.co.uk/specials/5serie...g_control.html



Hence my confusion... Some 'chassis tightening' appears to happen... from BMW's description... without needing the full VDC package. That is what it says from my reading.

HighlandPete
Even more lack of clarity them
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      04-19-2010, 03:32 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carl_d View Post
Please post once your car has arrived.
I will. The only point is, my car is going to be made in week 21, my dealer told me today. We're now in week 16. Delivery week 22(that is may 31st-june 6th) So I have to wait another 10 to 14 days...

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      04-19-2010, 09:22 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carl_d View Post
They are known by somewhat different terms and the info appears for a few minutes, then it automatically goes to a video screen

dynamic drive under active chassis http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/t...=dynamic_drive

electronic damper control http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/t...damper_control

active steering http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/t...ctive_steering

also HiFi Professional LOGIC7 System http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/t...ssional_logic7

Last edited by bm323; 04-19-2010 at 09:40 PM..
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