[Varkoroth]

Hi guys.

I was getting the dreaded "Increased battery discharge while stationary" error each time I go to start the car, so I had the battery checked (as that's the easiest) and it was almost fully dead. I bought the same spec Varta AGM 105aH battery as a replacement and it was coded. For a few days, everything was okay, but now the error is back.

I checked to see if the car goes to sleep (locked it and went back to check it 30 mins later without having the key on me) and it does go to sleep, the hazard lights, Start/Stop button and P on the gear stick were not lit up. All of the electronics are functioning correctly (some threads online mention stuff not working with this error, for example the Start/Stop function).

Since the car does appear to be going to sleep as it should, what could be causing the error?

The car is a pre-face 2012 F10 535xD with Comfort Access.

[ezaircon4jc]

Originally Posted by Varkoroth

Hi guys.

I was getting the dreaded "Increased battery discharge while stationary" error each time I go to start the car, so I had the battery checked (as that's the easiest) and it was almost fully dead. I bought the same spec Varta AGM 105aH battery as a replacement and it was coded. For a few days, everything was okay, but now the error is back.

I checked to see if the car goes to sleep (locked it and went back to check it 30 mins later without having the key on me) and it does go to sleep, the hazard lights, Start/Stop button and P on the gear stick were not lit up. All of the electronics are functioning correctly (some threads online mention stuff not working with this error, for example the Start/Stop function).

Since the car does appear to be going to sleep as it should, what could be causing the error?

The car is a pre-face 2012 F10 535xD with Comfort Access.

Start there; specifically one of the door handles. On my 2012, it was the passenger rear door.

[Varkoroth]

Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc

Start there; specifically one of the door handles. On my 2012, it was the passenger rear door.

Anything in particular I need to check? Wiring, fuses, error codes?

As all of the doors work fine in terms of locking/unlocking the car and the soft close works again on all doors without issues.

[ezaircon4jc]

Try unplugging the handles, one at a time, until you find the failed/ing handle. You'll know when the warning disappears. Other than that, I got nutin'.

[Varkoroth]

Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc

Try unplugging the handles, one at a time, until you find the failed/ing handle. You'll know when the warning disappears. Other than that, I got nutin'.

Worth the try I guess. Thanks!

[Hoa]

Most likely one of the door handle comfort access sensor is bad. You can scan for codes and see if it tells you which door is having an issue. You can also disconnect one at a time to narrow out. It’s not a hard job to do as far as replacement goes.

[ctcarbonari]

Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc

Start there; specifically one of the door handles. On my 2012, it was the passenger rear door.

Same for me at passenger rear door CA handle (2015 535i)

It should throw a code and dial you in on which handle it is. Mine did.
Sometimes if you walk around the car with your key fob in your pocket you'll be able to hear door trying to lock/unlock itself.

"Brute force" method of going thru and disconnecting each one to check would work too. You'll need a T15 T-Wrench to get thru the access hole on the side of the door and back off the screw (don't worry, it will stop when backed out fully and not fall out). A T15 socket w/ 1/4" drive will be too wide to fit. Also, I had to use the light on the end of my borescope to see inside to find the screw head. Once that screw is backed off you can get the handle out (it's pretty easy once you know which way to twist then pull). There will be (2) wire plug connectors. The CA sensors are on the (4) wire plug and the lights are on the (2) wire plug. You can just disconnect the plug and tuck it back in.

Also, it may not be your CA handles causing the increased drain but this is absolutely the first place I would look and eliminate as a cause. Make sure you don't have any aftermarket or third pary devices connected as well.

Here's a couple pics of what it looks like.

[Varkoroth]

Thanks for the replies. I will try the door handles these days, to see if it's one of them.

As for 3rd party/aftermarket stuff, as far as the previous owner told me, the only such things are the immobilizer/gps that were installed as a requirement for the insurance. I do have a hunch it may be that gps tracker, but I have no clue where it should be located, so I can test if it's that. xD

[ctcarbonari]

Get your hands on a scanner capable of reading the stored BMW hex codes and that should show you exactly where to start looking.

For example, on my faulty CA handle I have this active error stored:

9307B6: DAYS passenger door / rear side (BFTH): Invalid current value on unlocking line

[Varkoroth]

Originally Posted by ctcarbonari

Get your hands on a scanner capable of reading the stored BMW hex codes and that should show you exactly where to start looking.

For example, on my faulty CA handle I have this active error stored:

9307B6: DAYS passenger door / rear side (BFTH): Invalid current value on unlocking line

I've heard BimmerLink is good for that. What bluetooth adapter would you recommend to use?

[ctcarbonari]

Originally Posted by Varkoroth

I've heard BimmerLink is good for that. What bluetooth adapter would you recommend to use?

I use one of the ones that BL recommends. The OBDLinkCX. There's cheaper dongles out there that will work as well.

[Qsilver7]

Originally Posted by Varkoroth

I've heard BimmerLink is good for that. What bluetooth adapter would you recommend to use?

The Bimmercode & bimmerlink websites lists multiple compatible adapters. There are bluetooth, Wi-Fi, and E-net cables you can select from what you’re comfortable with.

Here’s a direct link to the compatible OBD adapters for the BimCode & BimLink apps…select based on what fits you..IOS, Android, or desktop: https://bimmercode.app/adapters/

[Blue Angel]

Subscribed!

I get this error, but only when it’s very cold out and the car has been sitting overnight. I doubt it’s the door handles but it’s nice to see this procedure outlined. I’ll surely try walking around the car with the fob to see if it reacts.

I’ve scanned with BimmerCode and nothing related to door handles comes up, so I’ll be interested if anyone finds or suggests other common sources for the issue.

I believe the original battery from 2016 is still in the car, and it is showing signs of weakness on cold mornings (slow cranking), so the battery could be a suspect. The issue did show up a couple years ago though, long before the battery started getting weak.

[ctcarbonari]

Originally Posted by Blue Angel

Subscribed!

I get this error, but only when it’s very cold out and the car has been sitting overnight. I doubt it’s the door handles but it’s nice to see this procedure outlined. I’ll surely try walking around the car with the fob to see if it reacts.

I’ve scanned with BimmerCode and nothing related to door handles comes up, so I’ll be interested if anyone finds or suggests other common sources for the issue.

I believe the original battery from 2016 is still in the car, and it is showing signs of weakness on cold mornings (slow cranking), so the battery could be a suspect. The issue did show up a couple years ago though, long before the battery started getting weak.

Subscribed to BL/BC ??? If so, congrats!

Just so there's no confusion for others reading this thread, I'm assuming you meant to say "I've scanned with BimmerLink"
They're (2) separate apps. BL is the scantool for reading error codes, reseting service intervals, putting brakes into service mode, data logging, reading live sensor values, registering a new battery, reading transmission adaptation values, etc. BC is the app that lets you change coding settings for car - such as mirrors close when lock, seat belt indicator/chimes, close windows & lock with fob, and is worth the cost if you only use it to kill the startup "nag screen", imho. lol. Also, BC is the app to CODE a new battery if you install a different type/size/parameters.

FWIW, I just recently changed my original 10 yr old battery in my 15' 535i. I used the dashboard feature in BL to keep an eye on my battery's state of charge & state of health (startability) during these past couple years and the SOC finally started to consistently read in the low 70s / 60s percent range. Battery load tested @ 810 of 950 cca so I probably could have got another 1-2 years out of it, but, not a gamble I was willing to lose.

If your battery is healthy, your CA handles are not shorting out, you have no 3rd party accessories staying on, all your modules are going to sleep, and you're not pulling up any "circuit" relevent stored error codes then trouble shooting "Increased Discharge while stopped" becomes a bit more of a task. I've read a few post where people have gone thru the fuses in the fuse boxes one-by-one to find the circuit that is drawing a higher than normal current.

[Blue Angel]

Originally Posted by ctcarbonari

Subscribed to BL/BC ??? If so, congrats!

Just so there's no confusion for others reading this thread, I'm assuming you meant to say "I've scanned with BimmerLink"
They're (2) separate apps. BL is the scantool for reading error codes, reseting service intervals, putting brakes into service mode, data logging, reading live sensor values, registering a new battery, reading transmission adaptation values, etc. BC is the app that lets you change coding settings for car - such as mirrors close when lock, seat belt indicator/chimes, close windows & lock with fob, and is worth the cost if you only use it to kill the startup "nag screen", imho. lol. Also, BC is the app to CODE a new battery if you install a different type/size/parameters.

FWIW, I just recently changed my original 10 yr old battery in my 15' 535i. I used the dashboard feature in BL to keep an eye on my battery's state of charge & state of health (startability) during these past couple years and the SOC finally started to consistently read in the low 70s / 60s percent range. Battery load tested @ 810 of 950 cca so I probably could have got another 1-2 years out of it, but, not a gamble I was willing to lose.

If your battery is healthy, your CA handles are not shorting out, you have no 3rd party accessories staying on, all your modules are going to sleep, and you're not pulling up any "circuit" relevent stored error codes then trouble shooting "Increased Discharge while stopped" becomes a bit more of a task. I've read a few post where people have gone thru the fuses in the fuse boxes [...]

Yes, BimmerLink.

I haven’t done exhaustive research into the issue as it only happens when it’s really cold out. I do have an aftermarket Android head unit which could be the culprit.

I haven’t checked the battery status in a while, probably about time to fire up the dongle and see what’s going on. Thx for the reminder.

[s_ribs]

Originally Posted by Blue Angel

Yes, BimmerLink.

I haven’t done exhaustive research into the issue as it only happens when it’s really cold out.

I've had my F10 for just a year but I am experiencing the same thing. Below zero and I get discharge warnings. Checked for codes with BimmerLink this week and didn't see anything for CA handles. I'll be sure to post if it keeps up and I find a culprit.

[Surly73]

Originally Posted by Blue Angel

Yes, BimmerLink.

I haven’t done exhaustive research into the issue as it only happens when it’s really cold out. I do have an aftermarket Android head unit which could be the culprit.

I haven’t checked the battery status in a while, probably about time to fire up the dongle and see what’s going on. Thx for the reminder.

As much as I'm all over the Internet saying that this particular message DOES NOT mean that the battery needs replacement, I believe that there are some times when it does. The intent of the message is that the IBS has detected energy leaving the battery at a faster rate than it should, regardless of the battery's condition.

The rest of the Internet says "It's the battery!" for Every. Single. Friggin'. Thing. It really grinds my gears and drives me nuts.

I believe that a very aged battery may also trigger this warning when conditions change while it's parked. When you shut down the car the IBS system says "yep, this battery is sufficiently charged to start the car, no problem!" AND standby current is normal but then, without any energy leaving the battery, startability is threatened by, say, the terminal voltage falling below a comfort zone (because the temperature plummets). So the IBS reacts and cuts off "optional" circuit branches, just as if standby current limits were breached.

So your case of popping "Increase discharge while stopped" only on first starts of the day after a very cold night MIGHT warrant battery replacement. Do a load test.

Everyone keep in mind:

• SOH = State of Health = the battery's capacity (Ah) and internal resistance (CCA) compared to when new
• SOC = State of charge = how charged is the battery compared to its CURRENT maximum capacity, whatever that may be.

You can have a battery at low SOH but 100%SOC. It will have good terminal voltage when freshly charged but have trouble starting the car or very low reserve capacity (goes dead quickly, like leaving the radio on for a while).

You can also have 100% SOH and low SOC. Just charge it.



The IBS system is specifically monitoring SOC, and has some idea of SOH based on observation of battery performance over time. (This is why we should register batteries when they are replaced and make sure that they are coded properly for chemistry and approximate capacity).

Test SOH with a battery load tester, or something like a Solar BA9 or Ancel BA101 to give an approximation. If it says your battery has below acceptable internal resistance - replace it.

ISTA IBS histograms show SOC, not SOH. One can't say "ISTA says my battery is at 80% so I don't need a new one."

Speaking to OP: If you pulled the battery and it was "dead" - what does that mean? It had low terminal voltage open circuit? If it was still above 11 VDC that probably just needs charging not replacing. And if your alternator is shot or you don't drive enough or something is running it down when you're parked then your expensive new battery will be "dead" soon too. Or it failed a load test despite being fully charged? Then yes, replace it.


Many years ago now, I had a "discharge while stopped" message. It didn't matter what the SOH or SOC of the battery was, a parking brake module wasn't sleeping properly. It was fixed under warranty but I believe the RO documented that ISTA was able to point directly to the module based on codes stored. The same should be true for many things on an F10, but possibly not every possible cause. You may only get codes pointing to a circuit branch and have to isolate from there the old fashioned way.

If "increased discharge while stopped" was displayed, SOMETHING should be logged and readable by ISTA.

I've also seen "Charge battery". This is simple monitoring that SOH is good but SOC is low. Plug it in or drive it around. That message lags the current ignition cycle so will display at ignition shutdown after the condition was logged. So, you may have driven your car for hours before shutting it down and see the message - the need to charge was present when you started it.

[Blue Angel]

Originally Posted by Surly73

As much as I'm all over the Internet saying that this particular message DOES NOT mean that the battery needs replacement, I believe that there are some times when it does. The intent of the message is that the IBS has detected energy leaving the battery at a faster rate than it should, regardless of the battery's condition.

The rest of the Internet says "It's the battery!" for Every. Single. Friggin'. Thing. It really grinds my gears and drives me nuts.

I believe that a very aged battery may also trigger this warning when conditions change while it's parked. When you shut down the car the IBS system says "yep, this battery is sufficiently charged to start the car, no problem!" AND standby current is normal but then, without any energy leaving the battery, startability is threatened by, say, the terminal voltage falling below a comfort zone (because the temperature plummets). So the IBS reacts and cuts off "optional" circuit branches, just as if standby current limits were breached.

So your case of popping "Increase discharge while stopped" only on first starts of the day after a very cold night MIGHT warrant battery replacement. Do a load test.

Everyone keep in mind:

SOH = State of Health = the battery's capacity (Ah) and internal resistance (CCA) compared to when new
SOC = State of charge = how charged is the battery compared to its CURRENT maximum capacity, whatever that may be.


You can have a battery at low SOH but 100%SOC. It will have good terminal voltage when freshly charged but have trouble starting the car [...]

Excellent post, as usual. Thanks Surly!

I really should buy a load tester. In the case of my F10, the 9 year old battery is probably just showing its age. It is slow to crank on cold mornings. I have a volt meter in the cigarette lighter port and operating voltage is good, varying between 14.5V-14.9V, so the battery should be getting sufficient charge while driving.

My Wife’s E90, on the other hand, has a 2 year old Costco battery and is suffering slow cranks on cold mornings and needs to be diagnosed. I would much rather have the tools at my disposal to determine the issue prior to dealing with taking the battery back to them to hear their take.

[ctcarbonari]

Originally Posted by Surly73

As much as I'm all over the Internet saying that this particular message DOES NOT mean that the battery needs replacement, I believe that there are some times when it does. The intent of the message is that the IBS has detected energy leaving the battery at a faster rate than it should, regardless of the battery's condition.

The rest of the Internet says "It's the battery!" for Every. Single. Friggin'. Thing. It really grinds my gears and drives me nuts.

Me too @ grinds gears and driving nuts.

Excellent post & description of SOC vs SOH as well as outlining "Increased Battery Discharge" message can actually mean "hey, it's the battery".

Any chance Surly73 could enlighten us on exactly what the BMW percentage value of "Distance to Startability" actually means? Best I can gather from blind intuition is that it is somehow related to SOH although quantitatively it has never made much sense to me other than 100% = Very Good, 0% = Very Bad.

+1 to the Solar BA9. That's a decently priced battery tester. I recently got one to test my 10 year old battery before making the decision to retire it (was still getting 810 cca and never any issues other than SOC started to consistently be in the low 70% - 60% range. It use to nearly ALWAYS be at 80%. And during the two months of ownership, four of my friends have been very happy with it too.

[s_ribs]

Originally Posted by Surly73

Test SOH with a battery load tester, or something like a Solar BA9 or Ancel BA101 to give an approximation.

Originally Posted by ctcarbonari

+1 to the Solar BA9.

Appreciate the recommendation - I've always wanted to have a better way to test batteries than a multimeter.

Looks like a great sale on the Ancel right now, $23.99 https://www.amazon.com/ANCEL-BA101-P.../dp/B01M0ARG3X

[Surly73]

Originally Posted by ctcarbonari

Me too @ grinds gears and driving nuts.

Excellent post & description of SOC vs SOH as well as outlining "Increased Battery Discharge" message can actually mean "hey, it's the battery".

Essentially I would like to say it might be the battery if it's obvious (14 year old battery) or if you've checked other stuff first. Don't just replace the battery because "hey it's 3 years old and the dealer said these Bimmers are quirky". Or because "Jimbo from reddit said it was probably the battery".

Any chance Surly73 could enlighten us on exactly what the BMW percentage value of "Distance to Startability" actually means? Best I can gather from blind intuition is that it is somehow related to SOH although quantitatively it has never made much sense to me other than 100% = Very Good, 0% = Very Bad.

My understanding without further research is that it's a SoC monitor with some basis in SoH, with a little sprinkle of translation from German mixed in. How far through the discharge process (translated "distance") are we before IBS has to intervene to make sure this thing will start?

So, potentially the distance to startability might be 30% when you returned home, but dropped below 0% after everything cooled off, terminal voltage fell etc...

+1 to the Solar BA9. That's a decently priced battery tester. I recently got one to test my 10 year old battery before making the decision to retire it (was still getting 810 cca and never any issues other than SOC started to consistently be in the low 70% - 60% range. It use to nearly ALWAYS be at 80%. And during the two months of ownership, four of my friends have been very happy with it too.

The BA9 and similar devices approximate the current CCA based on measuring the internal resistance of the battery, original rated CCA, etc... You'll see that on one of the output pages it will provide the measured milliohm resistance of the battery. The lower the better. They're better than nothing, but not as good as a real load.

On that topic, note that the IBS and the rest of the car systems HAVE a real load test: every single engine start. For the entire service life of the battery the IBS systems are logging temperature, energy in, energy out, terminal voltage, voltage dip during cranking etc... and it can actually build a significant profile on the battery based on all of these factors. How much current the battery will sink when not fully charged reveals internal resistance. As does voltage dip during cranking. How quickly the terminal voltage drops during slower discharge reveals capacity/reserve capacity. Add "time" to the equation and the IBS systems know how the battery compares to these measurements when it was installed.

Again, this is why one should register the battery when you replace it. It will then start over, collecting new "original" performance figures for years of comparison down the road. Will your car explode if you don't register it? - no. But I wish the folks shaking their fist about how you didn't need to program stuff in the 'good ol' days' would give the anti-registration rants a rest...

<soapbox> If you want to DIY on German cars >2006, you must add a bidirectional code reader with manufacturer-specific reading capability to your DIY toolbox or you're just doing a half arsed job and making things harder on yourselves. They get used for far more than just CELs. </soapbox>

[ezaircon4jc]

Originally Posted by s_ribs

Appreciate the recommendation - I've always wanted to have a better way to test batteries than a multimeter.

Looks like a great sale on the Ancel right now, $23.99 https://www.amazon.com/ANCEL-BA101-P.../dp/B01M0ARG3X

Ordered!!!!!