[Diesel_Lover]

Sporty ambitions? Experience maximum dynamics, efficiency and driving comfort with the optional 8-speed Sport automatic transmission: its short shift times improve acceleration and aid sporty driving. The gentle gradation of the eight gears reduces the engine's rev interval between shifts, so the transmission process is barely noticeable. At the same time, the engine is always held at the rev level at which it can optimally utilise its strength – increasing dynamics and efficiency and reducing the noise level. The eighth gear reduces the number of revolutions at high speeds, tangibly increasing comfort while reducing fuel consumption and emissions.

http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/t...nsmission.html

I am focused on building a performance oriented 535dx.
I read this quote, and was wondering if I should reconsider getting the 8-speed sport automatic transmission, which requires one of the upgrade lines.
I am considering purchasing the Luxury Line over the M-Sport Line because I plan to order the car in Callisto Gray. Callisto Gray is not available in M-Sport. Also, the Luxury Line is cheaper than the M-Sport.

Do the wheels on the M-Sport Package give performance advantages on a car that will never see a track, or are they for appearance only?

Are the paddle shifters worth getting, or is the quick shifting sports transmission hype?

[AVIMAX]

I don't use the paddles. To me, the shifter for the sports auto is a nicer design. A small thing, but you do see it every day.

[xs2man]

Absolutely. The 8 speed sports auto is excellent. Probably one of the absolute best gearboxes available on any car. I LOVE mine.

[Diesel_Lover]

I first believed the sports transmission was just about having the convenience of the paddle shifters on the steering wheel.

I honestly couldn't see myself using them much, but faster shifting transmission. I think I have to have it!

Now it is a matter of which line to choose, so I can add the Paddle shifters.

I think the Luxury Line is the way to go because it is less money, and I can get the Callisto gray, I kind of want.

Is there a compelling reason to go with the M-Sport package, or is Luxury fine with DHP (Dynamic
Handling Package)?

[xs2man]

I'm quite sure there is no real performance advantage to the M-Sport package, but it does LOOK sooooo much sportier than the luxury line. But then again, if your loosing the colour you really want, it may not be worth it.

Personally, I love my M-Sport with sports auto in Sophisto Grey...


IMG_1715 by xs2man, on Flickr


IMG_1727 by xs2man, on Flickr

[btv764]

If you are building a performance oriented car I would personally go for the M Sport package. I think that the side skirts and front bumper look much more aggressive than the standard F10 and really set the car apart from other F10's. You also get the sport steering wheel and a few other things.

From what I have seen to retrofit the M Sport exterior body pieces onto a non M Sport car is more expensive than ordering it in the first place. You can always remove some of the M decals if you want to.

The M Sport wheels may be a bit lighter but you can get far better performance from aftermarket wheels which would be designed for your specific use of the car and handling expectations.

[Diesel_Lover]

I am drooling over the M-Sport steering wheel, but I have some concerns about the M-wheels and tires.

Don't sport tires have a low tread wear rating, and therefore need to be replaced sooner?

In addition, I read an article in which the Sport wheels came out of round.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ad-test-review

So do the tires wear down quicker, and are the lighter M-wheels more delicate than the Luxury Line wheels?

[SonicEndeavor]

Originally Posted by Diesel_Lover

http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/t...nsmission.html

I am focused on building a performance oriented 535dx.
I read this quote, and was wondering if I should reconsider getting the 8-speed sport automatic transmission, which requires one of the upgrade lines.
I am considering purchasing the Luxury Line over the M-Sport Line because I plan to order the car in Callisto Gray. Callisto Gray is not available in M-Sport. Also, the Luxury Line is cheaper than the M-Sport.

Do the wheels on the M-Sport Package give performance advantages on a car that will never see a track, or are they for appearance only?

Are the paddle shifters worth getting, or is the quick shifting sports transmission hype?

I use the paddle shifters often and feel they would be especially useful in your situation with the relatively narrow power band of the diesel engine. I enjoy heading into a corner, two blips on the left paddle to kick down two gears, then rocket out of the corner in exactly the right gear.
I don't buy that the SAT shifts faster because that ZF 8 speed already does 200 millisecond shifts, so what you're really getting is the paddle shifters and activation of the paddle shifter software. Some guys have successfully added paddle shifters on their own and you can activate the software via coding.
No, the wheels don't give any performance advantage, but if you like the way they look, just have the Dealer swap the them for you. Dealers always have take-offs around from guys who upgraded.
Also, make sure you drive the 535d (which as I'm sure you know is really a 530d). A guy on another board who does quite a bit of racing took one out and was very disappointed in the performance. He felt the power came on strong for about 20 feet, then died out. I'm not trying to discourage you, but since you're trying to build a performance car, be sure it's capable of what you want.

[Diesel_Lover]

Originally Posted by SonicEndeavor

I use the paddle shifters often and feel they would be especially useful in your situation with the relatively narrow power band of the diesel engine. I enjoy heading into a corner, two blips on the left paddle to kick down two gears, then rocket out of the corner in exactly the right gear.
I don't buy that the SAT shifts faster because that ZF 8 speed already does 200 millisecond shifts, so what you're really getting is the paddle shifters and activation of the paddle shifter software. Some guys have successfully added paddle shifters on their own and you can activate the software via coding.
No, the wheels don't give any performance advantage, but if you like the way they look, just have the Dealer swap the them for you. Dealers always have take-offs around from guys who upgraded.
Also, make sure you drive the 535d (which as I'm sure you know is really a 530d). A guy on another board who does quite a bit of racing took one out and was very disappointed in the performance. He felt the power came on strong for about 20 feet, then died out. I'm not trying to discourage you, but since you're trying to build a performance car, be sure it's capable of what you want.

I am not looking for a performance car per se. I am looking for a high fuel economy car with high torque, and AWD. However, when ordering the car I want to equip it to have the best performance.

I am on a budget, and need to stay as close to the base 535dx I can, but do not want to sacrifice any functionality, if possible.

So are paddle shifters worth the $2,600 I would have to spend to get them?

That figure includes the upgrade line that I have to buy to get access to the paddle shifters.

I would buy the paddle shifters, for sure, if you could add them to the base car without getting an upgrade line. The same goes for the fog lights, automatic high beams, satellite radio, and keyless go.

[AVIMAX]

The tires on the M Sport and Luxury line should be the same size and type, at least they are in Canada, 245/40/19 Goodyear LS-2. I think there is an option in the US to order staggered P-Zeros (or some other performance tire) at no extra cost. Too bad we don't get that option here. The M Sport steering wheel is really really nice, it also doesn't block any of the instruments, the regular steering wheel in my last car did. I prefer the front of the M sport. My 2011 535 was not an M sport and now that I have it, I really prefer the M sport styling. Decisions, decisions!

[SonicEndeavor]

Originally Posted by Diesel_Lover

I am not looking for a performance car per se. I am looking for a high fuel economy car with high torque, and AWD. However, when ordering the car I want to equip it to have the best performance.

I am on a budget, and need to stay as close to the base 535dx I can, but do not want to sacrifice any functionality, if possible.

So are paddle shifters worth the $2,600 I would have to spend to get them?

That figure includes the upgrade line that I have to buy to get access to the paddle shifters.

I would buy the paddle shifters, for sure, if you could add them to the base car without getting an upgrade line. The same goes for the fog lights, automatic high beams, satellite radio, and keyless go.

No way the paddle shifters are worth $2600. Google "F10 paddle shift retrofit". And you'll find info from people who have retrofit the paddle shifters and updated the software. Those guys on the BF coding forum, especially Shawn, can answer any questions you have.

[Diesel_Lover]

Originally Posted by SonicEndeavor

No way the paddle shifters are worth $2600. Google "F10 paddle shift retrofit". And you'll find info from people who have retrofit the paddle shifters and updated the software. Those guys on the BF coding forum, especially Shawn, can answer any questions you have.

Thanks Sonic,

O.K. then, I am back to the base model, and out of the upgrade lines.

You just saved me thousands$$$

[btv764]

The wheels that come on the car depend on the model, options etc.

On the 2012 M Sport cars, if you ordered xDrive you got some Michelin all season tires, I did not get xDrive and my wheels came with Perrelli PZero's.

Usually as the performance factor increases, the tread wear rating decreases...

[remmib]

Originally Posted by btv764

The M Sport wheels may be a bit lighter but you can get far better performance from aftermarket wheels which would be designed for your specific use of the car and handling expectations.

The 351M M-sport wheels are not light at all.

[Grover432]

Originally Posted by Diesel_Lover

I first believed the sports transmission was just about having the convenience of the paddle shifters on the steering wheel.

I honestly couldn't see myself using them much, but faster shifting transmission. I think I have to have it!

Now it is a matter of which line to choose, so I can add the Paddle shifters.

I think the Luxury Line is the way to go because it is less money, and I can get the Callisto gray, I kind of want.

Is there a compelling reason to go with the M-Sport package, or is Luxury fine with DHP (Dynamic
Handling Package)?

If you consider an M Sport, drive one for an afternoon to make sure you like the level of steering boost - it is much lower than a non M Sport and it takes some extra muscle to keep the car pointed in the middle of a lane and more effort at speed to turn the car. Have you considered a "Modern Line" (like the wheels)?

I wouldn't get the car without the sport automatic. Also, consider the suspension difference, if any between a 535d and a 535 M Sport. I'm not saying there is a difference, but the steering effort between M Sport and non M Sport is evident, so there may be other differences people who post here are unaware of.

As to DHP, I've thought it is a must have option but others have posted that the ride is either too floaty or too stiff so I'd drive one first before ordering what sounds like a necessary option, but may not work as well as you hope.

I have driven a 528 X Drive, a 535dx and own a 535 X Drive M sport. the 528 is the most buick like with very light steering, soft suspension and a spaghetti thin steering wheel. The 535dx was a nice driver, but I didn't throw it through the bends on my 15 minute test drive and as I have posted elsewhere I am a bigger fan of the gas engine (not to say the diesel isn't perfection for some).

[Diesel_Lover]

Originally Posted by Grover432

If you consider an M Sport, drive one for an afternoon to make sure you like the level of steering boost - it is much lower than a non M Sport and it takes some extra muscle to keep the car pointed in the middle of a lane and more effort at speed to turn the car. Have you considered a "Modern Line" (like the wheels)?

I wouldn't get the car without the sport automatic. Also, consider the suspension difference, if any between a 535d and a 535 M Sport. I'm not saying there is a difference, but the steering effort between M Sport and non M Sport is evident, so there may be other differences people who post here are unaware of.

As to DHP, I've thought it is a must have option but others have posted that the ride is either too floaty or too stiff so I'd drive one first before ordering what sounds like a necessary option, but may not work as well as you hope.

I have driven a 528 X Drive, a 535dx and own a 535 X Drive M sport. the 528 is the most buick like with very light steering, soft suspension and a spaghetti thin steering wheel. The 535dx was a nice driver, but I didn't throw it through the bends on my 15 minute test drive and as I have posted elsewhere I am a bigger fan of the gas engine (not to say the diesel isn't perfection for some).

I am specifically looking for the diesel because of its superior fuel economy, and high torque. I think it is a great blend of power and economy.

I have driven the 535dx, but not the M-Sport 535dx. The 535dx is very nice, but I did not think there was any difference between the M-Sport and the base car, other than esthetics.

I know the non-Xdrive M-Sports models have passive sport suspension, but on the Xdrive M-sports models that is deleted.

Is there really a steering difference in the M-Sport models? I thought the only difference, as far as steering goes, was just the M-Steering Wheel.

Other than the color, I am only interested in functional options. If I have to make cuts in packages and options. So, I would rather cut on form rather than function.

I would love to see an F11 550dx. IMO, I think that is a perfect blend of form and function. Especially, coming from someone, who has been driving a pickup truck for the past 20 years. I have only had my 335d for 20 months now, and I really miss being able to throw large items in the back.

[Grover432]

Originally Posted by Diesel_Lover

I am specifically looking for the diesel because of its superior fuel economy, and high torque. I think it is a great blend of power and economy.

I have driven the 535dx, but not the M-Sport 535dx. The 535dx is very nice, but I did not think there was any difference between the M-Sport and the base car, other than esthetics.

I know the non-Xdrive M-Sports models have passive sport suspension, but on the Xdrive M-sports models that is deleted.

Is there really a steering difference in the M-Sport models? I thought the only difference, as far as steering goes, was just the M-Steering Wheel.

Other than the color, I am only interested in functional options. If I have to make cuts in packages and options. So, I would rather cut on form rather than function.

I would love to see an F11 550dx. IMO, I think that is a perfect blend of form and function. Especially, coming from someone, who has been driving a pickup truck for the past 20 years. I have only had my 335d for 20 months now, and I really miss being able to throw large items in the back.

I've driven both and there is a definite difference in steering effort in the M Sport. I've gotten used to it (and it has worked in a bit), but if I had noticed it before buying, it would have given me pause to reconsider. You should make sure you spend some time in the seat driving one before you commit.

By the way, what is your annual mileage?

[AVIMAX]

I'd double check that. I don't think there is any steering difference between MSport and not as long as both cars you are comparing cars have x-drive. My last F10 wasn't an MSport, my current F10 is, the steering effort in both is identical.

[Diesel_Lover]

I am not driving much these days, due to current circumstances, but that could change anytime. Usually 12000 miles a year, but now 5000 miles a year.

I will definitely drive an M-Sport. I like stiff steering. Are you sure that the heavier steering is caused by a combination of the hydraulic steering, and the difference in the LCI update for 2014?

I know you were driving a F30 for a while, and that has electric steering which has a lighter feel.

[Diesel_Lover]

Originally Posted by AVIMAX

I'd double check that. I don't think there is any steering difference between MSport and not as long as both cars you are comparing cars have x-drive. My last F10 wasn't an MSport, my current F10 is, the steering effort in both is identical.

Yes, my understanding is that there is no difference in the steering.

All the guys here have said, that upgrade lines are all cosmetic with the exception of the M-Sport RWD suspension, and that difference is deleted with the addition of XDRIVE.

[Grover432]

Originally Posted by AVIMAX

I'd double check that. I don't think there is any steering difference between MSport and not as long as both cars you are comparing cars have x-drive. My last F10 wasn't an MSport, my current F10 is, the steering effort in both is identical.

The service manager at my dealership was contacted (email) by the sales department to ask the question, specifically because I had complained about high steering effort while driving in a straight line. He wrote back that the steering effort is definitely tuned more firmly in M Sport X drive models. I'm no expert and unless we find one on this forum with a technical paper from BMW on the subject, I'm not sure if there are any "experts" here either. Of course, the service manager could be wrong, but I didn't pursue it as I was advised that there was no software adjustment that could be made to lighten it up.

I only raise the issue as I found the effort to be too high on my. New car 3 weeks ago. Since then I have out 1,100 Km's on the car and it is much better, but still Moore steering effort than in the 535dx I drove in Toronto 2 weeks ago (that car had 2,000 Km's on it).

[Grover432]

Originally Posted by Diesel_Lover

I am not driving much these days, due to current circumstances, but that could change anytime. Usually 12000 miles a year, but now 5000 miles a year.

I will definitely drive an M-Sport. I like stiff steering. Are you sure that the heavier steering is caused by a combination of the hydraulic steering, and the difference in the LCI update for 2014?

I know you were driving a F30 for a while, and that has electric steering which has a lighter feel.

All the F10 cars I test drove have X Drive, so all had HS. Comparing to the F30, the steering effort in my car is much greater. As I have written, I have gotten used to it and it is also loosening up some. For the first 2 weeks I had sore forearms from steering the car. I'd recommend a test drive. I drove an LCI and my car and didn't notice a difference (both cars had 500 km on them at the time). The training manual for the LCI differences indicated an adjustment for LCI models but it doesn't say whether that applies to the EPS and HS models or just EPS. If there is a change on the '14 HS, it is so subtle it is un noticeable ( to me).

As to mileage, if you are only driving 12,000 miles a year and you don't get some sort of Eco credit, I don't bee the financial sense in the diesel. Diesel is 15 - 20% more expensive in the US and when the economy improves will shoot higher. The vehicle option is several thousand dollars higher and you have the cost of the urea and the added maintenance of that system. I'm sure it feels good to be able to drive 900 Km's on a single tank, but at the end of the month, our fuel costs will almost be the same.

If you were driving 30,000 Km's/year (18,000 mikes), I could see an argument on the economics side. At 5,000 miles/year, have you considered a 2 series?