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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 BMW 5-Series (F10) Forums General 5-Series Sedan and Wagon (F10 / F11) Forum What can i expect coming from an E90 335 to a F10 535?
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      07-27-2018, 05:33 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
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Originally Posted by Pierre Louis View Post
My 2011 e90 sport package 335d steering was nice but was definitely not "fabulous" - it felt artificially heavy.
E9x model's steering was good, but personally I think it is over-rated. My E91 steering was heavy, (non servotronic) and like many BMW models very tire/pressure/alignment sensitive for feel and precision.

My F11 (2011 build) is pretty good for an early EPS system. I don't understand all the harsh criticism in the F10/11. I think many find it hard to adapt to a lighter steering weighting. Particularly if previously driving BMW's without the servotronic system. As BMW HPAS systems, EPS is tire/pressure/alignment sensitive. EPS does require accurate calibration to ensure best feel. If the steering wheel is in any way slightly off centre, when driving straight, it takes the edge off the precision and feel.
It's at high speeds where the hydraulic steering shines and loose steering gets scary
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      07-27-2018, 09:38 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Bmw doubles View Post
It's at high speeds where the hydraulic steering shines and loose steering gets scary
Yes, the e90 sport package was great at high speeds, but the suspension geometry and tires were not great in the long run on my car. Tire wear even when properly aligned and with Michelin PSS was, IMO, uneven and sub-par. The tires "cupped" and made noise. Much worse than what I've experienced in past premium high performance cars.

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      07-28-2018, 02:52 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Bmw doubles View Post
It's at high speeds where the hydraulic steering shines and loose steering gets scary
Is this one example, or are you saying all EPS systems are inferior at speed?

I see no technical reason why EPS should have a speed related issue. I've driven cars with EPS which are poor, but not BMW 3 & 5 series models. My F11 certainly does not suffer as speed increases, the vehicle is fine whatever speed I drive, no 'loose' feeling at all.
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      07-28-2018, 03:43 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
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Originally Posted by Bmw doubles View Post
It's at high speeds where the hydraulic steering shines and loose steering gets scary
Is this one example, or are you saying all EPS systems are inferior at speed?

I see no technical reason why EPS should have a speed related issue. I've driven cars with EPS which are poor, but not BMW 3 & 5 series models. My F11 certainly does not suffer as speed increases, the vehicle is fine whatever speed I drive, no 'loose' feeling at all.
My F10 is electric steering and my e90 was hydraulic. Having both you'll know what I'm saying. It's not a matter of being subjective. They're two different worlds.

My F10 is fine at high speeds and I am considering swapping out to the XDrive setup that's hydraulic just for that tight sports car feeling again.
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      07-28-2018, 10:16 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
E9x model's steering was good, but personally I think it is over-rated. My E91 steering was heavy, (non servotronic) and like many BMW models very tire/pressure/alignment sensitive for feel and precision.

My F11 (2011 build) is pretty good for an early EPS system. I don't understand all the harsh criticism in the F10/11. I think many find it hard to adapt to a lighter steering weighting. Particularly if previously driving BMW's without the servotronic system. As BMW HPAS systems, EPS is tire/pressure/alignment sensitive. EPS does require accurate calibration to ensure best feel. If the steering wheel is in any way slightly off centre, when driving straight, it takes the edge off the precision and feel.
My F10 is hydraulic steering since it's an X-Drive, and it is still hugely unpleasurable compared to E39 (with I6 engine), E46 and E90 steering. Period. It has some weight, but not feedback. The X-Drive suspension geometry might dial out feedback in order to dial out torque steer - not a problem on RWD platforms.

IMO, the magic of the earlier steering systems is not just weight, but return-to-center force and tactile feedback. On the E39 platform, the I6 versions had a different front end (V8 had a rearward traction strut and recirculating ball steering, I6 had a frontward lower "wishbone" and rack-and-pinion). I regular drove both versions and although the weight was similar, the I6 front end was vastly more fun and engaging.

I suppose if you were comparing a hydraulic F10 to a recirculating ball V8 E39 they might feel somewhat similar, but no comparison to the older I6 cars.
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      07-28-2018, 11:12 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Surly73 View Post
My F10 is hydraulic steering since it's an X-Drive, and it is still hugely unpleasurable compared to E39 (with I6 engine), E46 and E90 steering. Period. It has some weight, but not feedback. The X-Drive suspension geometry might dial out feedback in order to dial out torque steer - not a problem on RWD platforms.

IMO, the magic of the earlier steering systems is not just weight, but return-to-center force and tactile feedback. On the E39 platform, the I6 versions had a different front end (V8 had a rearward traction strut and recirculating ball steering, I6 had a frontward lower "wishbone" and rack-and-pinion). I regular drove both versions and although the weight was similar, the I6 front end was vastly more fun and engaging.

I suppose if you were comparing a hydraulic F10 to a recirculating ball V8 E39 they might feel somewhat similar, but no comparison to the older I6 cars.

I read your experience as saying it is not simply EPS which changes the steering characteristics. Not straight forward comparisons of HPAS vs. EPS performance.

The F10 chassis/suspension design (double wishbone, etc.) is biased to more isolation from the negative interferences of the road. (BMW state/claim that in their technical blurb). So whether hydraulic or electric steering, we have some critical differences, add in a longer wheel base and we are losing the agility and feedback of a smaller chassis, which typically has a more raw 'road to driver' interface.

I've experience of the E39, both V8 and I6 steering, I agree with your comments that the V8 steering is probably more comparable to the F10 steering. Lacks a layer of precision, compared to the rack and pinion of the E39 and E60. The E39's V8 steering was competent, but not quite as sharp as the I6 steering. F10 steering is likewise competent, I'd say more precision than the E39 V8, but as you say, road feedback is less than we may have experienced with the best of the HPAS rack and pinion steering systems.

If we are honest, some of the road feel in cars like the E9x models was not just the good feedback, some negative road interference was evident. That's where it becomes more subjective, IMO, some drivers like the negative stuff as well, may mix it with the positive, even rate it as good feedback.

My E91 suffered some negative feedback, particularly on poor road surfaces. A weird kind of bump steer, even generated a feeling of torque steer you'd experience in a FWD chassis. Impossible I know, but took the edge off the precision and could feel quite vague at times.

Personally I feel the steering debate is much more complex than simply HPAS vs. EPS. I recall Car & Driver found there is not too much difference in the F10, between the two steering systems, when they tested the steering with full test instrumentation. Wasn't it just on-centre feel which was a little less in EPS?
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      07-28-2018, 11:26 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
My E91 suffered some negative feedback, particularly on poor road surfaces. A weird kind of bump steer, even generated a feeling of torque steer you'd experience in a FWD chassis. Impossible I know, but took the edge off the precision and could feel quite vague at times.
Yes, this and the artificially heavy feel of my e90 sport package made it less attractive. Bump or torque steer is a good way to describe it.

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      07-28-2018, 02:19 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by 335IAF View Post
Hey all. I'm seriously contemplating stepping out of my E90 and into an F10. I've loved the look of these cars for several years and I think i've outgrown my E90 honestly. I thought I was completely sold on an F10, until I got to sit in a 550 at the dealership and was just taken back by how much bigger it seemed. I realized it's not that much bigger of a car, but everything felt so much further away for some reason. Assuming i can get over that, How much different is a 535 from a 335? Does it really take away from the drivers experience? Does it drive like a Camry or equivalent? Trying to find what i don't know. If anyone has moved from an E90 to an F10, I'd be especially interested in your thoughts. I've had an E46 330 and now this E90. Barely been in a 5 series. Thanks for any input.
I had an E90 330i with Sport Package.
The F10 steering is lighter (takes less effort to turn).
F10 steering is slower (have to turn the wheel more, for the car to turn the same amount).
F10 steering has much less self centering force.
F10 has more nosedive when braking.
F10 has a softer brake pedal.
F10 has less initial bite.
F10 has less brake dust.
F10 throttle response is better.
F10 has a better interior design.
The E90 N52 was smoother (less NVH).
F10 has very firm shifts, in sport or sport+, during heavy throttle.
F10 has better shift programming. (Far too often the ZF6 speeds in my N52 E90 and E60 N54 were caught one gear to high during transient throttle in semi aggressive city driving. The ZF8 seems to pick a better gear here.)
F10 obviously has better ride quality, especially at low speeds on marginal surfaces.
F10 exhaust note is practically silent (N55).
F10 rear does not have the bounce/hop/pogo over humps and irregularities that the E90 did.

The F10s, while quiet, seem to have a touch more wind noise in comparison to my old E60 535i. I can’t recall if I could detect any wind noise in my E90. It’s been so long ago. But the E60 had a distinct lack of wind noise at just about any speed. Maybe my E60 was extra tight and my F10 a bit loose in that regard.

The F10 driving experience is certainly more mature. Maybe too much so, in some ways. The E90 feels like a go-cart in comparison.
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      07-28-2018, 02:28 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
Is this one example, or are you saying all EPS systems are inferior at speed?

I see no technical reason why EPS should have a speed related issue. I've driven cars with EPS which are poor, but not BMW 3 & 5 series models. My F11 certainly does not suffer as speed increases, the vehicle is fine whatever speed I drive, no 'loose' feeling at all.
I think this comes down to personal preference.
The EPS is lighter in comparison. The tighter, more weighted, hydraulic steering provides some with a higher sense of stability, control, and feel. This is especially true at high speeds.

On the other hand, some will prefer the lightness, and ease of action provided by EPS and feel just as secure.

I do prefer stiffer steering, at all times, even if actual feel is lacking.
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      07-28-2018, 03:07 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Bmw doubles View Post
My F10 is electric steering and my e90 was hydraulic. Having both you'll know what I'm saying. It's not a matter of being subjective. They're two different worlds.

My F10 is fine at high speeds and I am considering swapping out to the XDrive setup that's hydraulic just for that tight sports car feeling again.
I need more weight to my steering too.

My E90 was superb.
I traded it for an E60 535i and found that the steering was not as weighted.
Still it was heavier than some cars. On that E60, I found true satisfaction when I coded the Servotronic system. Using NCSExpert, I was able to tune the steering assist from nearly 0% to 100% electronically, in I think, 5 mph intervals. It was great I set it a bit stiffer than the E90 once on the move, and just a little lighter at garage/parking lot speeds. That bit of coding made me love my E60 so much.

Now, the light steering in my F10 is a let down. It is very accurate and reasonably responsive, but I do miss having weighty/meaty steering.
I’ve been looking at the F10 EPS computer and there are a myriad of adjustable/codeable settings in there. It would be awesome if firmer steering could be set or programmed like on the E60. I haven’t done any experimenting with it yet. I do know the 5, 6, and 7 all use the same EPS computer and rack. So with that, there is at least some adjustability in the EPS computer to tailor it to the specific platform it is installed in. The modules are all written in German, and my fluency in German is limited, so it’s gonna take a while to figure out.

The f30/f80 3 series and m3/4 owners have already found settings to switch their EPS to that of a firmer/lighter model through coding. I’m sure we (F10s) can do it too.

For now, I am trying to identify which 5 series platform mates have the stiffest steering. Then, I will figure out how to apply those settings from that stiffer car.

I think 7 series steering is stiffer than 5 series. (Based upon reviews) it would be nice to try those settings if they are. The 6 series may or may not be different than the 5. I can’t snag M5/6 or Alpina settings, because they don’t use EPS. if they did, those would have been the perfect candidates.
I recall reading that the 5GT had firm steering too... still researching though.

I might just have to start randomly flashing different models settings and see what I like the best.

A company (hello Dinan, or even BMW) should really offer EPS tuning software or packages for the F10. I think they’d make a killing. BMW could charge a pretty penny for M-Performance Steering Software. If done correctly, I’d quickly pay the same $1500 as the M-Power Kit engine Ecu upgrade they have.
I think BMW would rather have us upgrade to full fledge M5 models. Lol.

Last edited by thakid22; 07-28-2018 at 03:13 PM.. Reason: Edit
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      07-28-2018, 03:33 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Louis View Post
Yes, this and the artificially heavy feel of my e90 sport package made it less attractive. Bump or torque steer is a good way to describe it.

PL
Tramlining... Yes. My E90 did this too. On anything less than smooth, damn near perfect pavement, the road would send steering inputs into the rack that made the wheel pull and twist in my hands. I like steering feel as much as the next fellow, but it was excessive. If torque steer in FWD cars is such a tragedy, tramlining should be considered just as atrocious.

It cheapens the feel of the car. Additionally, the rear of the e90 could skip/wiggle sideways ever so slightly if a rear wheel hit a sharp bump while cornering at speed.

The e90 was a blast on smooth roads. But the lack of refinement on marginal surfaces was jaw dropping.

BMW has been listening though... Many owners complained to the service department about these traits. BMW responded with the F10, F30, etc.
Much more refined, but now also much more soft and less sporty.

BMW should be able to dial these cars in a bit better. CTS, ATS, IS, GS, etc. show just how well handling and refinement can coexist. Lately, it seems BMW is about compromise. I await the new G-series 3 with baited breathe... I’m hoping they bring back some that old BMW magic (e36/46 era).
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      07-28-2018, 04:17 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by thakid22 View Post
Now, the light steering in my F10 is a let down. It is very accurate and reasonably responsive, but I do miss having weighty/meaty steering.....

I’ve been looking at the F10 EPS computer and there are a myriad of adjustable/codeable settings in there. It would be awesome if firmer steering could be set or programmed like on the E60.....

For now, I am trying to identify which 5 series platform mates have the stiffest steering. Then, I will figure out how to apply those settings from that stiffer car.
I wonder if all F10 EPS calibrations are the same for a given build period. I found even at the beginning of production, all F10 steering didn't appear equal. I sensed that cars with the Sport Auto (SAT) were heavier weighted.

Whether that is to do with the comfort/sport calibrations being different from cars without the DDC switchable option/toggle I don't know. It was one reason I would only have a car with SAT, as the steering appeared better calibrated.


If so, may be worth getting to view the data for different builds.
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      07-29-2018, 07:29 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
I wonder if all F10 EPS calibrations are the same for a given build period. I found even at the beginning of production, all F10 steering didn't appear equal. I sensed that cars with the Sport Auto (SAT) were heavier weighted.

Whether that is to do with the comfort/sport calibrations being different from cars without the DDC switchable option/toggle I don't know. It was one reason I would only have a car with SAT, as the steering appeared better calibrated.


If so, may be worth getting to view the data for different builds.

I have read that SAT does have increased weight. I think it was one of your past threads that shed light on that. Steering effort does seem to change through the production cycle and with updates.

I live in Little Rock and it is relatively hard to find various spec F10s here. If they were more plentiful, I could just go test drive all of the various 5, 6, and 7 models to make some comparisons.

As it is, I’m having to rely on forum posts and media reviews to point me in the right direction. I may start a new thread asking owners what year/options they have and how they judge their steering. Maybe a clear trend will be evident.
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      07-30-2018, 09:48 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thakid22 View Post
I had an E90 330i with Sport Package.
The F10 steering is lighter (takes less effort to turn).
F10 steering is slower (have to turn the wheel more, for the car to turn the same amount).
F10 steering has much less self centering force.
F10 has more nosedive when braking.
F10 has a softer brake pedal.
F10 has less initial bite.
F10 has less brake dust.
F10 throttle response is better.
F10 has a better interior design.
The E90 N52 was smoother (less NVH).
F10 has very firm shifts, in sport or sport+, during heavy throttle.
F10 has better shift programming. (Far too often the ZF6 speeds in my N52 E90 and E60 N54 were caught one gear to high during transient throttle in semi aggressive city driving. The ZF8 seems to pick a better gear here.)
F10 obviously has better ride quality, especially at low speeds on marginal surfaces.
F10 exhaust note is practically silent (N55).
F10 rear does not have the bounce/hop/pogo over humps and irregularities that the E90 did.

The F10s, while quiet, seem to have a touch more wind noise in comparison to my old E60 535i. I can’t recall if I could detect any wind noise in my E90. It’s been so long ago. But the E60 had a distinct lack of wind noise at just about any speed. Maybe my E60 was extra tight and my F10 a bit loose in that regard.

The F10 driving experience is certainly more mature. Maybe too much so, in some ways. The E90 feels like a go-cart in comparison.
You have a pretty great list there.

I have a couple of rambling contributions

My E90 was a pre-LCI 328i 6MT w/ sport package. The engine/exhaust was even quieter than my F10 535xi.

In my lifetime experience, all 5 series are designed with "longer controls" than all 3 series. 5 series steering is slower. 5 series controls like the signal stalks have way more throw. 5 series brake pedals go longer. By comparison I love everything about 3 series control system design choices. 3 series braking feels much more confidence inspiring and high performance, even if the brakes themselves are a fraction of the size.

There's been a lot of debate on whether F10 SAT means anything but paddles. Lots of people say they're the same - I've come to disagree. I do not have SAT and wish I did. I have had F30 loaners with and without SAT (but with the same ZF 8 speed platform) and I have to say that the SAT definitely has some different shift programs (e.g. the software parameters around the shift itself, not the RPM at which the shift occurs) that are not available in non-SAT. An SAT-equipped ZF 8 speed in manual shift mode shifts much faster.

As BMW offers more models and options, apples-to-apples comparisons on the Internet become more difficult. LCI F10 steering is apparently much better. SAT vs. non-SAT. EPS vs. hydraulic steering etc... Unfortunately many Internet posters don't fully qualify what they have when giving their opinions on the driving experience.
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      07-30-2018, 03:29 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Surly73 View Post
As BMW offers more models and options, apples-to-apples comparisons on the Internet become more difficult. LCI F10 steering is apparently much better. SAT vs. non-SAT. EPS vs. hydraulic steering etc... Unfortunately many Internet posters don't fully qualify what they have when giving their opinions on the driving experience.

Always a problem comparing, particularly when some assessments are at least 'in part' subjective in nature.

Specification can make so much difference to our judgements. Even for steering, wheel size, tires and pressure can influence our opinion.
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      07-30-2018, 03:36 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Surly73 View Post
You have a pretty great list there.

I have a couple of rambling contributions

My E90 was a pre-LCI 328i 6MT w/ sport package. The engine/exhaust was even quieter than my F10 535xi.

In my lifetime experience, all 5 series are designed with "longer controls" than all 3 series. 5 series steering is slower. 5 series controls like the signal stalks have way more throw. 5 series brake pedals go longer. By comparison I love everything about 3 series control system design choices. 3 series braking feels much more confidence inspiring and high performance, even if the brakes themselves are a fraction of the size.

There's been a lot of debate on whether F10 SAT means anything but paddles. Lots of people say they're the same - I've come to disagree. I do not have SAT and wish I did. I have had F30 loaners with and without SAT (but with the same ZF 8 speed platform) and I have to say that the SAT definitely has some different shift programs (e.g. the software parameters around the shift itself, not the RPM at which the shift occurs) that are not available in non-SAT. An SAT-equipped ZF 8 speed in manual shift mode shifts much faster.

As BMW offers more models and options, apples-to-apples comparisons on the Internet become more difficult. LCI F10 steering is apparently much better. SAT vs. non-SAT. EPS vs. hydraulic steering etc... Unfortunately many Internet posters don't fully qualify what they have when giving their opinions on the driving experience.
It’s interesting that you mention your 328i E90 had had a quieter engine and exhaust than the F10 535xi. Yeah those N52 engines were SUPER smooth and quiet. I was almost shocked by the amount of intake sound in my F10 535i by comparison. It’s very vocal at high rpms... for a luxury car.
But back to that 328i, I had my windows down as one briskly took off beside me and it emitted a noticeable purr as it revved out. Not as much as the E90 330 or 335i, but definitely some (from the outside). I would have thought it’d be audible inside too.

I haven’t heard a stock F10 from outside, but I assumed it was silent to bystanders, in regards to exhaust. Maybe it too, just isn’t audible inside.

On another note, I think that the F30 335i has a much quieter intake sound (but much louder exhaust) in comparison to the 535i. For the 1st couple weeks of ownership, I wondered why my new 535i N55 had so much more intake sound than the N55 F30’s I was used to getting as loaner cars.

When I popped the hood, I found that the F30 and F10 have different intake designs despite sharing the same engine (explaining the sound difference).

I guess it was all a big deal to me, as it was one of the first (of many) things to highlight the ball of contradictions that is the F10.
The tranny is very sporty. The intake sound is fairly aggressive. But the steering, the ride quality, exhaust, and the brake feel are all rather mundane. A car at this price point should be good to excellent on most, if not all, fronts.

Speaking of the tranny... you are right the SAT ZF8 F10 shifts wayyy faster than the ZF6 in the E90. But I have noticed that the shifts are not as lightning quick as the SAT ZF6 in my old E60 535i, judging by the speed with which the tach flicks during/after shifts. That may not be a true indicator of actual shift speed though.

One more thing... BMW rev matching leaves a bit to be desired. It’s much less entertaining, smooth, and sharp than Infiniti’s implementation of the feature. This applies to both the ZF6 and ZF8 (with or without) SAT. I’d like to drive another brands car with the ZF8 and see if the rev matching feature is any different. I forget to test it every time I drive another make. I have a feeling Bmw just programs it the way it does.

One awesome trait of all the BMW automatics is that they respond almost instantly to manual commands via the shift lever or the paddles. Lots of other cars have a bit of lag between the time the paddle (or lever) is pulled and the execution of the shift. The industry is just starting to catch up there.

Last edited by thakid22; 07-30-2018 at 03:53 PM..
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      07-30-2018, 04:15 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thakid22 View Post
... I was almost shocked by the amount of intake sound in my F10 535i by comparison. It’s very vocal at high rpms... for a luxury car.

I guess it was all a big deal to me, as it was one of the first (of many) things to highlight the ball of contradictions that is the F10.
The tranny is very sporty. The intake sound is fairly aggressive. But the steering, the ride quality, exhaust, and the brake feel are all rather mundane. A car at this price point should be good to excellent on most, if not all, fronts.

Your comments on intake sound has surprised me. Induction in my F11 N55 is virtually silent, in all conditions. I simply get a subdued exhaust rasp under full load at decent revs.


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      07-30-2018, 06:24 PM   #40
thakid22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
Your comments on intake sound has surprised me. Induction in my F11 N55 is virtually silent, in all conditions. I simply get a subdued exhaust rasp under full load at decent revs.


.
At low to mid rpms the engine is exactly what I expect.
But from about 5500rpm to redline, there is a distinct rasp/a slight growl.
I assumed this emanated from the intake system, as it seems to come from up front and I thought the exhaust to be practically silent.

Had a loaner N55 X5 last month that sounded just about the same...
The sound is reminiscent of a Cold air/short ram intake, though much more muted.

I now have the M Performance exhaust and don’t hear the intake sound anymore.

Perhaps the high rpm growl was never that significant at all. Maybe I am a touch hypersensitive here. I generally dislike induction sound. I prefer valvetrain and/or exhaust noise. My mother’s 3.6 CTS sounds eerily similar at high rpms. Still the F10 induction sound is more aggressive than both my N52 330i and N54 535i, during those last few hundred rpms.

Surly73 seems to have a similar experience regarding N52 vs N55 sounds...
HighlandPete, if I recall correctly, didn’t you have a E90 in the past?
You don’t feel the E90 was quieter near redline?

My first full throttle romp in my F10 prompted two thoughts.
1. “My E60 might be faster.”
2. “Wow! These new ones sound sporty up high.”

But again, it’s not obtrusive, just more than I’d anticipated. Take that with a grain of salt though, because I am particularly critical of induction sounds.
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      07-30-2018, 06:26 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
Always a problem comparing, particularly when some assessments are at least 'in part' subjective in nature.

Specification can make so much difference to our judgements. Even for steering, wheel size, tires and pressure can influence our opinion.
This is true.
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      07-31-2018, 06:25 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thakid22 View Post
...Surly73 seems to have a similar experience regarding N52 vs N55 sounds...
HighlandPete, if I recall correctly, didn’t you have a E90 in the past?
You don’t feel the E90 was quieter near redline?
...
My E91 was an I6 diesel, so a diffident animal for soundtrack.

BTW, when we 'compare' the N55 ... I do wonder if these subtle differences we notice could (at least partly) be that we have a different 'listening position' as driver. Your LHD model will mean you likely hear induction more than exhaust. Me in my RHD car, more exhaust than induction.
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      07-31-2018, 09:56 AM   #43
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I went from an '11 E90 328i to a '17 G30 530i and haven't looked back. The G30 is a much larger vehicle not only lengthwise but also very wide, almost 73 inches!

There was definitely and adjustment period while getting use to the size of the 530, specially when parking and judging distances as the car has a long front end.

I had not owned or driven a full size sedan in almost 20 years so after many MINI Coopers and the E90 I had completely lost practice with navigating a large sedan.

Both are great cars but with different mission and conceived in different eras. As I get older I much appreciate the comfort, looks, Tech and relaxed "Mature" drive of the G30. Also the G30 does generally handle better than the late F10.

You can't go wrong with a 5-Series. For the record I never cared for the current generation of the 3-Series F30 hence why I held onto my E90 for close to 7 years.
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      07-31-2018, 10:02 AM   #44
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At high speeds the steering feel in my G30 is fantastic and trumps the E90. Perfectly weighted and gets firmer as the car gets up in speed. In sport mode is fantastic.

I appreciated the feel of the old hydraulic setup in my E90 however never saw the appeal of this constantly overly heavy steering effort required at parking lot speeds. That aspect was very overrated in my opinion.
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