[Blue Angel]

It’s the bridge by the airport on the Rockliffe parkway. It’s got steep ramps on either side and many stock vehicles don’t have enough suspension travel and damping to travel comfortably over without bottoming, especially eastbound where there’s a sharp bump at the bottom as well. The speed limit is only 60 km/h but I’m usually going 75-80 if there’s no traffic.

With the Silvers I had to slow down in both directions. On the KWs I can take it westbound not bad, but still have to slow to 65 or so going eastbound.

I live in Orleans and work in Gatineau, but we’re building a new place north of Stittsville. Where were you while in town?

[cdmulders]

Originally Posted by Blue Angel

It’s the bridge by the airport on the Rockliffe parkway. It’s got steep ramps on either side and many stock vehicles don’t have enough suspension travel and damping to travel comfortably over without bottoming, especially eastbound where there’s a sharp bump at the bottom as well. The speed limit is only 60 km/h but I’m usually going 75-80 if there’s no traffic.

With the Silvers I had to slow down in both directions. On the KWs I can take it westbound not bad, but still have to slow to 65 or so going eastbound.

I live in Orleans and work in Gatineau, but we’re building a new place north of Stittsville. Where were you while in town?

I was in three places for three postings: 1: near Woodruff & Baseline (92-96); 2: near Blair & Ogilvie / Beacon Hill (99-01) and 3: near Jeanne D'Arc & Orleans Blvd / Convent Glen (2012-15).

I know the Rockcliffe Parkway very well. I used to bike commute along it often and also used to do the biking thing when they closed off the road during the summer. I now live in a bit of a milder climate out here on the west coast, since I had my choice of places to live when I retired back in 2018. Thanks for the update. I guessed you were in Orleans from a few of the pics you posted, but I wasn't sure. I had my F10 xDrive in full winter mode when we were in Orleans, with Nokian Hakkapeliitta tires and stock suspension. It was unstoppable! Cheers.

[Blue Angel]

Small world - we were neighbors! I’m just off Jeanne D’Arc and Hunter’s Run, been here since 2009. Cheers to that warmer climate! So far this year has been mild, but that can change anytime.

My car isn’t much lower than stock, still a tank in the snow!

[Surly73]

Originally Posted by Blue Angel

I wonder if this could be due to the factory shock mount bushings wearing out? In all my reading on the KWs I remember one person with an F30 (I think) who claimed he had to upgrade to a stiffer Dinan shock mount to get his car to settle down and get the most of his stiffer KW dampers on track. His issue was wheel control over bumps and curbing, the soft stock bushings created a sloppy connection between damper and chassis.

I DIYed the install in April 2020 and replaced everything - top mounts, all hardware, all TTY bolts with either dealer or OE (Lemforder) parts. My use is nowhere near "track" duty and when I started noticing a little wheel hop there was hardly any miles/age on those top mounts. I had never heard of a requirement for upgraded mounts for a car to feel settled and that's pretty interesting, but I don't think that's what I was feeling. It's pretty subtle, but I started noticing it. As I think about it, I wonder if rebound is what I should stiffen a click...

I considered upgrading to the M5 upper mounts for this reason but never found them for a decent price and ended up just re-using my existing mounts. The M5 uses specific part numbers I assume because they are stiffer to handle its stiffer shocks. I also wonder if a stiffer mount would result in better bump absorption with V3s since a stiffer mount would force the shock to react quicker, triggering the fast response valve on less sharp impacts?

Not sure. The M5 could also have a different bolt layout, rod diameter or any number of things which would call for another part# too. Haven't studied them. Perhaps I should have.

On the issue of the V3 wearing out, I watched a video review where someone had put over 100k miles on a set in an Acura NSX. They put the old shocks on a dyno and they were still working, though their damping profile had shifted slightly compared to a new unit. They are rebuildable should they ever wear out, but they certainly seem capable of surviving many years of street/track use.

I had the expectation that they'd last quite a long time, but it also seems that I have been inundated lately with accounts of shocks expiring WAY before their expected lifetime. Pretty much every DIYer / Youtuber who pulls a shock finds it blown. On any cars where I've upgraded the suspension I've done it well before shocks should have worn out and they were doing nothing. I had a set of Koni yellows on my E39 and they disappointed me too.

I guess I was preparing to be disappointed by KW as well. As of today I have 30k km on them.

I appreciate that they are designed to be rebuilt. 1/ I have some concern about the impact of road salt on them, despite being "InOx" line and 2/ on the XDrive, the job on the front end was not any fun, and I really don't want to repeat it if I don't have to - ever. Furthermore, this is my DD and only vehicle - what do I drive while the shocks are out being rebuilt for...weeks?

According to my records I'm running about 32mm lower in the front and 23mm lower in the rear than the standard suspension. With 1" taller (26.7" diameter) tires the tread is about even with the fender and the car is only 3/4" F and 1/2" R closer to the ground, so still lots of winter clearance and still decent suspension travel.

I took a look at some notes, measured from axle center to fender the original ride height is ~380-385mm. After raising 5mm I'm at 360mm all around. Option 704 M Sport suspension is 370-375mm.

There is a bridge on my commute to work that has some aggressive ramps up and down. I was hoping the KWs with their heavy damping would allow me to cruise over this bridge at speed without bottoming out, but that proved an overly optimistic expectation. It's not the end of the world as most traffic slows down for this bridge anyway, and the situation is much improved over the Silvers which required slowing down quite a bit more. This one obstacle is my main deterrent to reducing the compression damping, but the compromise seems necessary.

I have never evaluated the KWs in terms of how hard I can slam into things. I'd slow down for what you describe no matter what. I immediately noticed exactly what I was looking for - that through undulations and normal street road contours it stopped wallowing around and followed road contours exactly.

The other things that took me a while to notice was a dramatic increase in grip during high frequency road disruptions - e.g. the cracked and broken pavement when driving through a commercial area pounded by trucks. It was not a comfortable ride on any suspension, certainly not the KWs, but the increase in surefootedness was dramatic once I realized the difference. Clearly the tire was losing/reducing contact with the road a great deal before the swap.

My primary goal was low frequency body control and performance more akin to 704 package E39s or E46s from my F10. Mission accomplished and then some.

QUESTION: If your car is XDrive, is the included KW adjustment knob capable of adjusting the front dampers? IIRC, the reach wasn't sufficient to get to the screws and I needed an allen key.

Does not reach compression adjustment on the front. I use a hex driver from my toolbox.

[ChiNorm]

Originally Posted by Blue Angel

Yes, I meant just the bump adjustment, should have clarified. Thanks!

So what is the recommended approach for bump adjustment on the XDrive V3 then? A custom length Allen key? I don’t believe my 2mm key is long enough on it’s short side.

I bought a screwdriver like allen key from Amazon.

[Surly73]

Originally Posted by Surly73

My primary goal was low frequency body control and performance more akin to 704 package E39s or E46s from my F10. Mission accomplished and then some.

And before I'm misquoted, my F10 now has the overall body control in line, but it is still nowhere near the driver's car an E39, E46 or E90 is.

[Blue Angel]

Originally Posted by Surly73

I DIYed the install in April 2020 and replaced everything - top mounts, all hardware, all TTY bolts with either dealer or OE (Lemforder) parts. My use is nowhere near "track" duty and when I started noticing a little wheel hop there was hardly any miles/age on those top mounts. I had never heard of a requirement for upgraded mounts for a car to feel settled and that's pretty interesting, but I don't think that's what I was feeling. It's pretty subtle, but I started noticing it. As I think about it, I wonder if rebound is what I should stiffen a click...

Originally Posted by Surly73

Not sure. The M5 could also have a different bolt layout, rod diameter or any number of things which would call for another part# too. Haven't studied them. Perhaps I should have.

Ah, so worn parts are not likely an issue then. I still do wonder about the compliance of the stock mounts with far more damping applied to the suspension. I have seen a few members with worn top mounts, to the point of being visibly deteriorating with rubber flaking off. Rod diameter is something I didn't consider - good point.

Originally Posted by Surly73

I had the expectation that they'd last quite a long time, but it also seems that I have been inundated lately with accounts of shocks expiring WAY before their expected lifetime. Pretty much every DIYer / Youtuber who pulls a shock finds it blown. On any cars where I've upgraded the suspension I've done it well before shocks should have worn out and they were doing nothing. I had a set of Koni yellows on my E39 and they disappointed me too.

I guess I was preparing to be disappointed by KW as well. As of today I have 30k km on them.

I appreciate that they are designed to be rebuilt. 1/ I have some concern about the impact of road salt on them, despite being "InOx" line and 2/ on the XDrive, the job on the front end was not any fun, and I really don't want to repeat it if I don't have to - ever. Furthermore, this is my DD and only vehicle - what do I drive while the shocks are out being rebuilt for...weeks?

My Wife's E90 had 3/4 blown shocks at 150k kms... I was not expecting that! I started noticing wheel hop after sharp impacts and looked into it. Even worse was the Konis I replaced them with - the rears only lasted a year before leaking. I exchanged them under warranty.

My F10 shocks look OK, they came off the car with ~95k kms. No visible leaks and they do not stay compressed. Based on what I've read they likely don't have long to live though.

Originally Posted by Surly73

I took a look at some notes, measured from axle center to fender the original ride height is ~380-385mm. After raising 5mm I'm at 360mm all around. Option 704 M Sport suspension is 370-375mm.

Looks like you're roughly 9mm (3/8") higher than where I'm at right now. Did you have any issues with bottoming out?

Originally Posted by Surly73

I have never evaluated the KWs in terms of how hard I can slam into things. I'd slow down for what you describe no matter what. I immediately noticed exactly what I was looking for - that through undulations and normal street road contours it stopped wallowing around and followed road contours exactly.

The other things that took me a while to notice was a dramatic increase in grip during high frequency road disruptions - e.g. the cracked and broken pavement when driving through a commercial area pounded by trucks. It was not a comfortable ride on any suspension, certainly not the KWs, but the increase in surefootedness was dramatic once I realized the difference. Clearly the tire was losing/reducing contact with the road a great deal before the swap.

My primary goal was low frequency body control and performance more akin to 704 package E39s or E46s from my F10. Mission accomplished and then some.

Originally Posted by Surly73

And before I'm misquoted, my F10 now has the overall body control in line, but it is still nowhere near the driver's car an E39, E46 or E90 is.

LOL, agreed! I've never driven an E39 or E36, but my Wife's E90 in stock base suspension form is much more lively than my KW F10. Methinks that will always be the case, unless someone comes up with an E90 -> F10 steering rack swap!

Originally Posted by Surly73

Does not reach compression adjustment on the front. I use a hex driver from my toolbox.

Thanks. I'll have to invest in a spare 2mm driver to keep with the car.

[Surly73]

Originally Posted by Blue Angel

Looks like you're roughly 9mm (3/8") higher than where I'm at right now. Did you have any issues with bottoming out?

Depends on what you mean by bottoming out. Full compression of the shocks to the bump stops? Not a frequent occurrence (if ever). I would get body, bumper, undertray hits and I just don't need that crap. I'd cringe every raised manhole cover or roadkill I had to straddle, my front bump (stock non-M sport) would graze lightly on some totally normal driveways, a chunk of icy crap from someone's wheel well on the road would scrape down the underneath, I'd creep through speed bumps or weird construction areas and still hit something. I could barely slide my Quickjack under the lift points too.

To me it seemed clear that the F10 was designed to have fender gap as part of it's appearance, but even at factory ride height it didn't have a lot of ground clearance. So, there isn't as much to play with when you start chasing attractive stance as if you were dealing with an E chassis car or another brand.

Add to that the fact that you could see the wheel well opening was originally at a perfect radius for the original ride height, and I found the larger gaps fore and aft of the wheel compared to above the wheel was becoming a little distracting.

Rambling aside - I raised it for a little more headroom before striking things, and a little more compliance in the suspension. So far I'm completely happy. Handling did not suffer in any appreciable way. Still needs spacers or different offset wheels to make it perfect, but it seems like diminishing ROI. I did the KWs for the handling, not (just) the looks. I'd still like M-Sport / M-Technic front, rear and skirts at some point.

LOL, agreed! I've never driven an E39 or E36, but my Wife's E90 in stock base suspension form is much more lively than my KW F10. Methinks that will always be the case, unless someone comes up with an E90 -> F10 steering rack swap!

I was looking out for any options like that years ago. I would totally consider something like that. If there was something I'm sure I would learn it couldn't be done on an X-Drive anyways, just like everything else it seems...

[Blue Angel]

You're right about the low body/high wheel arches. This is one of the reasons I decided to try a taller tire and went from 26.7" to 27.7" (245/45-19 winter, 275/35-20 summer). This allowed me to reduce the wheel to fender gap by 1" before getting the body any closer to the ground.

I ended up going slightly lower to reduce the gap to less than 1/4", but compared to a car with stock size tires with the same gap I'm 1" higher off the ground. So far it has worked out well with only a minor rub on the inside of the plastic front fender liner where the facia and fender meet. My offset on the front is aggressive enough that the tire will touch the fender on big compressions if the wheel is turned, but that's not too hard to avoid.

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[automaz_]

How long did you ask for the springs on the front to be?

Swift springs come 7 inches in the front and 8 in the rear

I have asked for 9 inch rears so it’s easier to adjust height

Wondering if keeping the front at 7 is fine

[Blue Angel]

I would get 9” at the front as well if they’re available. I’ll see if I can dig up a pic of them installed.

[Blue Angel]

I don’t have pics of the Swifts installed, but I do have pics of the 10k/7k springs that are 7”. They don’t leave much room for access:

[Blue Angel]

Here’s a pic of the front off the car. You can see even with the longer spring there’s tons of room left for lowering and the longer the spring the better access you have for adjustments.

Sorry I can’t get a better pic, these are buried behind a bunch of crap in my garage.

[automaz_]

Thank you! I’ll get 9 inch swift springs from the front and rears

[Unspec]

Originally Posted by Blue Angel

I don’t have pics of the Swifts installed, but I do have pics of the 10k/7k springs that are 7”. They don’t leave much room for access:

How much preload is that? Silver recommended only 1/4" of preload - that looks far more than that.

[Blue Angel]

The 10k/7k springs were a disaster all around. After several discussions with them, we’re not sure why. I suspect the springs were incorrect both front and rear, but they didn’t want them back for testing so we’ll never know.

They recommend 2 turns (4mm) of preload, but they nearly rode on the bump stops and had nearly zero travel like that. So I went to 10 turns (20mm) preload and got coil bind (spring coils touched, exceeded the spring travel).

Once I installed the 12k/8k Swift springs everything was fine. I presume everything would have also been fine with the standard 12k/8k springs.

[Blue Angel]

Oh, I should have mentioned, that pic of the Neomax is with the car on the ground. I stuck the camera up into the fender for that pic. Might be why it looks like it has 1000 lbs of preload, lol!

[Unspec]

Originally Posted by Blue Angel

Oh, I should have mentioned, that pic of the Neomax is with the car on the ground. I stuck the camera up into the fender for that pic. Might be why it looks like it has 1000 lbs of preload, lol!

Ah, okay that makes more sense!

[automaz_]

After the shop installed my silvers neomax coilovers they are noticing a thump sound coming from the rear right which also sometimes feels like it’s coming from all around

They also tried to tighten up everything and the noise still persists. I am at 20 in the front and 22 in the rear for firmness

The car drives great though other then the noticeable thumb over road imperfections

They will try to call silvers tmrw and also diagnose but any ideas on what might be the issue ?

My car is a 2012 535 x drive and I opted for the swift springs

[Blue Angel]

One last thought (in addition to the PM). Since you mentioned you are at the firm end of the adjustment range there’s a possibility the bushing in the hat could be bottoming and making a thump on sharp impacts. Just a thought. I don’t think I ever got mine adjusted as tight as yours are.

Good luck and let us know if you get it solved.