[BMW3FXD]

Just read What Car's review of F10 vs new Audi A6 vs Jaquar XF vs Merc E Class. Positions were BMW=1 Jag=2 Audi=3 Merc=4.

Good review overall. However, I'm confused as that said they were testing a 530d SE and yet all the pics were of a 535d M-Sport! (and these were proper pics obviously taken during the back to back test drives). One pic blatantly has a rear view shot with 535d badge and twin exhausts and yet has "530d SE" narrative written next to it!

The biggest thing they had to say about the F10 was that Adaptive Drive was an absolute must have option - otherwise (they said) the ride and handling are a big let down for a BMW. Whether they were actually driving a M-Sport or a car with Adaptive drive and M-Sport suspension deleted I don't know. My guess is they might have been.

I've got a 520d on order so Adaptive Drive is not an option anyway - although the VDC option is.

However, I have ordered the M-Sport package with 19" rims and not included VDC. Have I screwed up here? Whats the general experience out there? Is M-Sport with VDC a lot better? If it is then I can drop the Sunroof option I have included as it basically the same price in the UK.

All guidance welcome as will need to decide on this over the next week - before it's to late to change! So, fight is VDC vs Sunroof on M-Sport with 19" rims!

[BMW3FXD]

Just used the car configuator and seen that M-Sport suspension isn't possible with VDC. So the question is really M-Suspension and Sunroof versus VDC and no Sunroof.

[EdM5]

Keep in mind that adaptive drive is not the same as VDC.
But don't worry, you get the (European) M-sport suspension and that's just fine. No need to add the VDC imo. Stick to the sunroof and enjoy the british summer

Btw: Car mags seem to suck big time everywhere, don't they?

[BMW3FXD]

After looking into the subject, VDC is the tech that basically irons out pot holes using sensors on the different wheel suspensions. It has two selectable modes - Comfort and Sport. Comfort softens the car and turns on the suspension sensors. Sport stiffens everything up and madkes it sportier (no surprise there then!)

Experts wanted!! - Am I talking crap here or is the above right?

So another question: How does VDC Sport mode compare with straight M-Sports Suspension?

Thanks for the reply Edwin. However, the prob here in the UK is that we probably have the worst pot hole situation in Europe! My current m-sport coupe gets a right beating on back roads - I've replaced four rear alloys in 4 four years!

May be that's why UK What Car said Adaptive Drive is a must have (for the VDC part)?

[EdM5]

I'm coming from an m-sport e92 as well and let me tell you there is a huge difference if you compare it with an F10.
There are many good threads with plenty of info on this topic already, I suggest you should do some research.

You might wanna check this great vid:

[BMW3FXD]

Edwin - thanks for the post and interesting vid.

Still have the same questions though. Have done some searches but cant find much in the way of answers. Can you point me in the right direction? I'm sure I'm gonna miss the e92 (its been great overall) but a F10 is a must have for me now so want to get in right.

I get a lot of pot hole crashing in my m-sport coupe so if the consensous is that VDC will help then the sunroof (and british weather) will have to sacrificed!! But is VDC really the answer when compared with basic m-sport suspension? Just re-read the What Car mag review and they said to put Adaptive Drive in sports mode anyway - for a proper BMW feel. So I guess that is in line with your first post.

Might email the mag and find out what they actually did test!!

[ipso_facto]

Given your confusion, it seems like my posting on Saturday afternoon was justified .. I spotted the awful editorial / QA error in their article too : What Car in the UK - Group Test - 5-er wins - but horrendous editorial / test error

BTW I have the 520d M Sport , Sports Auto on the standard 18" rims and no VDC. Average pot holes are fine for me - no particular discomfort. I slow down / avoid hitting the deeper ones (as I am sure most people do).

You are opting for ther 19" rims, so will be different for you, but throwing in my 2p worth anyway.

Personally speaking, if I were in your shoes, I would go for the sun roof, as I think I would get most benefit from this. When I drive my gf's 4x4, I love having the roof right back. I wish I had spec'd this on my 5-er now. Oh well!

Cheers.

[BMW3FXD]

Thanks for the post ipso_facto.

I've emailed the mag now to find out what car they did actually review!

I think I'll take your advice and stick with the sun roof. I cant say I really trust the What Car reviews anyway - and they also state that you should put the car in sports mode, which is what I'll have with M-Sport in any case.

I don't believe any kind of technology can really protect us against our larger UK pot holes anyway - other than tractor wheels maybe! As you say, its' just a matter of being careful where possible. I have hit some pretty big ones in the dark on unknown roads though - and they hurt!

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by BMW3FXD

I don't believe any kind of technology can really protect us against our larger UK pot holes anyway - other than tractor wheels maybe! As you say, its' just a matter of being careful where possible. I have hit some pretty big ones in the dark on unknown roads though - and they hurt!

I personally don't think it is only about potholes, more just coping with the typical poor surfaces and bad repairs we have over miles of our roads.

I've not driven a passive suspension M-sport setup yet, but the Adaptive Drive is far superior to the basic SE setup. It is not just that the sport setting stiffens up the car, although it does step up a notch for each setting (comfort, normal, sport). It rides softer when it can even in sport mode, and only really firms up when it needs to, so is a different road feel to any passive sport setup. Different and better, IMO. But some don't like it, as it is not a constant feel, it's a variable setup and it feeds that back quite clearly, from my driving it on a variety of roads.

Where I found AD really surprised me, was running sport mode in a 30mph restricted section on very broken roads, the car was much more composed than on the normal, or even the comfort setting, Clearly the roll control feature softens and single wheel bumps are absorbed even better by firmish damping, than the bounce the softer setting brings. If we have fixed roll bars, then single wheel bumps/impacts on a stiff sport damping typically unsettle a car, AD doesn't do that, far superior chassis control.

I'm also sure VDC will be different to AD, in the sense that roll control, to me, is more the characteristic that sets a good sport setup apart from even good and/or variable damping.

HighlandPete

[BMW3FXD]

Thanks Pete. I think given your comments there I'm going to just stick with the straight m-sport suspension, rather than VDC, as I suspect I would just use sports mode all the time anyway (as I prefer the "constant feel"). Plus a sun roof then stays in budget as well!

I'm used to the m-sport setup from my coupe and although I know it will be different with the F10 at least it should lean it towards a more sportier feel.

[Touring]

Go for the VDC, then you have a comfort car and sports car in one. Thats the option I use the most in my car. Anyway, buy the sunroof too. The extra money is just " a sausage in the time of slaughter" as we say :-)

[BMW3FXD]

Touring - cheersfor the post butwhich option do you use the most, comfort or sport? Did you test the m-sport?

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I personally don't think it is only about potholes, more just coping with the typical poor surfaces and bad repairs we have over miles of our roads.

I've not driven a passive suspension M-sport setup yet, but the Adaptive Drive is far superior to the basic SE setup. It is not just that the sport setting stiffens up the car, although it does step up a notch for each setting (comfort, normal, sport). It rides softer when it can even in sport mode, and only really firms up when it needs to, so is a different road feel to any passive sport setup. Different and better, IMO. But some don't like it, as it is not a constant feel, it's a variable setup and it feeds that back quite clearly, from my driving it on a variety of roads.

Where I found AD really surprised me, was running sport mode in a 30mph restricted section on very broken roads, the car was much more composed than on the normal, or even the comfort setting, Clearly the roll control feature softens and single wheel bumps are absorbed even better by firmish damping, than the bounce the softer setting brings. If we have fixed roll bars, then single wheel bumps/impacts on a stiff sport damping typically unsettle a car, AD doesn't do that, far superior chassis control.

I'm also sure VDC will be different to AD, in the sense that roll control, to me, is more the characteristic that sets a good sport setup apart from even good and/or variable damping.

HighlandPete

Originally Posted by BMW3FXD

Thanks Pete. I think given your comments there I'm going to just stick with the straight m-sport suspension, rather than VDC, as I suspect I would just use sports mode all the time anyway (as I prefer the "constant feel"). Plus a sun roof then stays in budget as well!

I'm used to the m-sport setup from my coupe and although I know it will be different with the F10 at least it should lean it towards a more sportier feel.

Highland Pete sums it up pretty well, but there is a significant aspect I'd like to add - the almost complete elimination of body roll in sport and sport+ modes. I have nearly 8k miles on my 535d MS with AD/VDC and, to me, this is the best aspect of the car.
I've driven the passive SE and disliked the wallow and body roll and although I haven't tried the passive M Sport, I gather that it also suffers from body roll, albeit to a lesser degree.
If you enjoy spirited driving I would strongly recommend that you try a car with AD/VDC before you place your order. I never cease to be amazed at how well such a large car handles when in sport mode - it really seems to be completely flat through the corners.
If it's AD/VDC or a sunroof, there's no competition - IMO!
On a less positive note I would also recommend that you make a conscious effort to evaluate the straight-ahead steering feel. It's very positive and remarkably responsive as long as you're maintaining positive cornering inputs on the wheel, but like many others, I find it a bit numb and lacking in feedback with the wheel on-centre.

[ipso_facto]

Originally Posted by Touring

Go for the VDC, then you have a comfort car and sports car in one. Thats the option I use the most in my car. Anyway, buy the sunroof too. The extra money is just " a sausage in the time of slaughter" as we say :-)

" a sausage in the time of slaughter" ... I like that ... I am going to use it.

Originally Posted by Jon D

On a less positive note I would also recommend that you make a conscious effort to evaluate the straight-ahead steering feel. It's very positive and remarkably responsive as long as you're maintaining positive cornering inputs on the wheel, but like many others, I find it a bit numb and lacking in feedback with the wheel on-centre.

Jon what do you mean by "as long as you're maintaining positive cornering inputs on the wheel" ... do you mean the steering feels responsive when turning, but not when you're running straight ahead?

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by ipso_facto

Jon what do you mean by "as long as you're maintaining positive cornering inputs on the wheel" ... do you mean the steering feels responsive when turning, but not when you're running straight ahead?

Yes - pretty much as I described, or so I thought, but in order to clarify, I'll try explaining in greater detail as follows:
For such a big car the F10 handles remarkably well in negotiating a series of bends with the suspension set in 'sport' or 'sport+' and provided that a positive cornering force is being applied to the wheel, the car is very responsive and a pleasure to drive. However, in a straight-ahead cruise the steering, to me, seems too light, lacks feedback and feels somewhat vague and unresponsive with the wheel on-centre, which results in constant corrective inputs being required in order to maintain a steady heading. The secondary effect of this is that the car has a tendency to wander off-line if you pay anything more than a fleeting glance to the sat-nav or idrive menu.
Hope that helps.

[BMW3FXD]

I've got two probs...

1. I HAVE to take the 520d, so AD is not an option. VDC is the replacement but does not do the full job - and I suspect is no better than the m-sport suspension. I think I would just be paying for a comfort mode that I would never use, given my driving preference.

2. I also have a strict budget. I know the dealer very well so already have a hefty discount but cant stretch to both sunroof and VDC.

My gut feel, given the helpful posts here, is that I would use the sunroof a lot more than the comfort mode provided by VDC. I suspect the kids will also love it and that it will enhance the resale value better than VDC as well.

However, if the VDC sport mode is far superior to the straight m-sport suspension then I would definitely consider it - but that is the question no one seems to be able to answer for sure. I might go up to the dealer tomorrow morning and see if they have the cars to do a back to back test.

[BMW3FXD]

Jon - there is a new thread here which talks about the steering feel and a replacement part number....

http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=535780

Given my car is a new order I should benefit from this. In any case, believe it not, 90% of my regular driving is done on roads with no real straights!

[BMW3FXD]

Jon - scratch that - I see you've already put a question on the thread!! Your way ahead of me!

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by BMW3FXD

Jon - there is a new thread here which talks about the steering feel and a replacement part number....

http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=535780

Given my car is a new order I should benefit from this. In any case, believe it not, 90% of my regular driving is done on roads with no real straights!

Seen it thanks and already responded to the thread.
Something I'm following with very keen interest.

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by BMW3FXD

Jon - scratch that - I see you've already put a question on the thread!! Your way ahead of me!

Ha ha, you posted your reply just as I was typing mine

[BMW3FXD]

LOL. I'll be following that thread too but to be honest I'm getting the F10 whatever happens. I'm just hoping it will feel like a proper BMW.

I also looked at the Jag XF as they are launching a 2.2d engine in September and as a driver experience its the only one that comes close in the exec market, IMO.

But at the end of the day I am a beemer man. My last 5 cars have all been Coupes and I know the all staff at the dealership etc - so I am keeping the faith and making the jump to the 5.

[Touring]

Originally Posted by BMW3FXD

Touring - cheersfor the post butwhich option do you use the most, comfort or sport? Did you test the m-sport?

In town : Comfort. Countryside: Normal. Highway or when I got the "need for speed" ( inside the limits set by a 2,0 diesel) : sport.

The sunroof I use all the time :-)

I got the ac-schnitzer springs now, its still comfy in comfort/normal, perfect in sport. Tested it on the Ring last weekend, the roadhandling was incredible.

I never testet the M-suspension, my dealer recommended the electronic suspension, it "makes" the whole car he said. And I agree with him.

But if I had to choose between VDC or sunroof, hmmm, I would have gone for sunroof.