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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 F10 Technical Topics Wheels / Tires / Suspension / Brakes Why is the F10 5-series suspension so great? Explanation by lead tuner.
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      04-08-2010, 01:26 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carl_d View Post
In UK, VDC can be order on 520d/525d/523i/528i without other options.

The 530d/535i/550i can only be ordered with VDC in combintaon with Dynamic Drive.

This is an issue for me, I'd like a 535i with VDC-only but this is not possible. Will wait to see what M-Sport offers.
Thanks, can you pls let me know why prefer VDC only and not with the other 2? M sport is available in Singapore for euro 800 but is not compatible with the 2 options (VDC with dynamic drive option, and all the 3 in 1 option). I haven't finalised my options.
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      04-08-2010, 02:24 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
hi, I don't know why but BMW does it differently in Singapore. There is 1 option no 223 which has both dynamic damper control and dynamic driving and it costs about euro 2400. The other option is no 2VA which has all 3, ie adaptive drive, dynamic damping and dynamic drive and the costs are about 3300 additional, ie euro 5700 for this 1 option which has all 3.

My question is do I just go for option 223 instead of option 2VA which is much more expensive? Is adaptive drive important, if I already have dynamic driving and dynamic damping?

OK, When I compare your prices it makes sense that they have splitted it. Then you will get the same as me with the 520d (as long as you combine it with 2TB!) , and the only thing you will miss is the 229 - Active Roll Stabilization. To have full use of this, you need power (that you have) and driving with a high speed through sharp turns, I think... Not allowed in Norway anyway....
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      04-08-2010, 02:41 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LMOR View Post
OK, When I compare your prices it makes sense that they have splitted it. Then you will get the same as me with the 520d (as long as you combine it with 2TB!) , and the only thing you will miss is the 229 - Active Roll Stabilization. To have full use of this, you need power (that you have) and driving with a high speed through sharp turns, I think... Not allowed in Norway anyway....
hmmm ... from US options list, ZDH Dynamic Handling Package consists of
223 Electronic Damping Control
229 Active Roll Stabilization
2VA Adaptive Drive

229 Active Roll Stabilization in US appears to be dynamic drive (push button sport/normal or comfort?) which is included in 1 option (called option 223 in Singapore, ie consisting of dynamic damper control and dynamic drive) which I've taken. I'm considering whether adaptive drive is necessary and how it affects the drive. Yes, the base 535i here has 2TB sports automatic transmission.

Last edited by bm323; 04-08-2010 at 02:47 AM..
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      04-08-2010, 03:23 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
hmmm ... from US options list, ZDH Dynamic Handling Package consists of
223 Electronic Damping Control
229 Active Roll Stabilization
2VA Adaptive Drive

229 Active Roll Stabilization in US appears to be dynamic drive (push button sport/normal or comfort?) which is included in 1 option (called option 223 in Singapore, ie consisting of dynamic damper control and dynamic drive) which I've taken. I'm considering whether adaptive drive is necessary and how it affects the drive. Yes, the base 535i here has 2TB sports automatic transmission.
I think this is only a normal "complicated way" that BMW constuct their option list. 223 and 229 is included in 2VA in Norway, and also in Germany:

2VA - Adaptive Drive inkl. Dynamic Drive (Reduzierung von Wankbewegungen), Dynamische Dämpfer Control (individuell wählbare Fahrwerkseinstellung Normal, Comfort, Sport) und Fahrdynamik-Control

And here you also see that Dynamic Drive is the same as Active Roll Stabilization and that "Normal, Comfort, Sport" button comes with Dynamic Damping, and not Adaptiv Drive. ("Normal, Sport" is also included with the sport automatic 2TB, but not "Comfort")

As I understand this, Adaptive Drive includes Dynamic Drive that is more advanced due to the fact that you also use the "Normal, Comfort, Sport" to control the included Active Roll Stabilization.
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      04-08-2010, 03:52 AM   #27
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Hmmm, I’m getting confused. The base 535i here has 2TB sports automatic transmission, shift paddles on the steering wheel and 255 sports leather steering wheel. Taken from the manual, the base 535i has speed sports automatic transmission Steptronic, with sports mode for a particularly sporty drive and shift paddles on the sports leather steering wheel.

What I want is sports and normal drive and with no/minimal body roll when turning. I am not interested in comfort mode or the sport plus mode (which I understand is more for drifting).

I was told that the sports mode on the dynamic drive with the sports/normal button (which tightens the chassis in sport mode) is different from the sports mode on the speed sports automatic transmission Steptronic, with sports mode for a particularly sporty drive, shift paddles on the sports leather steering wheel.

Dynamic drive with dynamic damping can only be ordered as 1 option here.

Is there any difference between (a) the sport mode on the dynamic drive button (which I need to order as an option 223) and (b) the sport mode on the speed sports automatic transmission Steptronic, with sports mode for a particularly sporty drive and shift paddles on the sports leather steering wheel (which is already in the base 535i)?
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      04-08-2010, 04:00 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
Thanks, can you pls let me know why prefer VDC only and not with the other 2? M sport is available in Singapore for euro 800 but is not compatible with the 2 options (VDC with dynamic drive option, and all the 3 in 1 option). I haven't finalised my options.
At a guess, BMW have only done the software tunning for the more powerful engine opions with Dynamic and Adatvive Drive drive.

When you say M-Sport, I assume this is just the lowered suspension without the other items (sport seats, bigger wheels, M trim on door and gear, black roof lining etc) as 800 EUR seem very cheap?
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      04-08-2010, 04:07 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carl_d View Post
At a guess, BMW have only done the software tunning for the more powerful engine opions with Dynamic and Adatvive Drive drive.

When you say M-Sport, I assume this is just the lowered suspension without the other items (sport seats, bigger wheels, M trim on door and gear, black roof lining etc) as 800 EUR seem very cheap?
Yes, you are right, it's only the suspension
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      04-08-2010, 04:29 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
What I want is sports and normal drive and with no/minimal body roll when turning. I am not interested in comfort mode or the sport plus mode (which I understand is more for drifting).

I was told that the sports mode on the dynamic drive with the sports/normal button (which tightens the chassis in sport mode) is different from the sports mode on the speed sports automatic transmission Steptronic, with sports mode for a particularly sporty drive, shift paddles on the sports leather steering wheel.

If you only want sport and normal, you do not need to add 223, at least not in most contries. Sport automatic in most countries includes Dynamic Driving Control. 223 will add "comfort".

If you want no/minimal body rolling, you need to add 2VA.

And then you will get a complete different car on sport as you were told, due to the Active Roll Stabilization.
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      04-08-2010, 04:31 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
Yes, you are right, it's only the suspension
Thank you. Also just checked the German configurator and I could not select both M-Sport suspension and VDC (or AD, DD) together. Had to check German site becasue BMW UK do not list M-Sport suspension as an option - marketing games!

This is great news, for me, as it means when the full M-Sport package is launched (soon) I can order without all the trick suspension which is what I want (just lowered and tunned by M).

Great one
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      04-08-2010, 06:44 AM   #32
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What a fascinating article. I really enjoy understanding how my F10 on order, actually works. This also gives insights into BMW's constant quest for innovation and refinement. Great car. Great company.
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      04-08-2010, 11:55 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carl_d View Post
This is great news, for me, as it means when the full M-Sport package is launched (soon) I can order without all the trick suspension which is what I want (just lowered and tunned by M).

Great one
carl_d, would you be able to elaborate, generally, on the difference that the M sport suspension makes (besides the lowered look). Am toying with the idea of adding this option to my order but am unsure if the improvement in handling will compensate for the harsher (?) ride. For some reason, most of the UK rags always comment that the E60 on the M-sport suspension rides too firmly. Thanks.
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      04-08-2010, 01:23 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nfnc View Post
carl_d, would you be able to elaborate, generally, on the difference that the M sport suspension makes (besides the lowered look). Am toying with the idea of adding this option to my order but am unsure if the improvement in handling will compensate for the harsher (?) ride. For some reason, most of the UK rags always comment that the E60 on the M-sport suspension rides too firmly. Thanks.
Your description is correct yet most buyers in the UK opt for M-Sport package as it looks better. It does handle better but the ride is harsher.

Its down to personal taste, if you hate a harsh ride but want big wheels go for VDC.

If you want the lowered look with big wheels then go for M-Sport but you will have to live with a harsher ride.

The full M-Sport package (not just the suspension) provides additional items: bigger M badge wheels, an M colour option, black head liner, sport seats with half leather, sport steering wheel with M badge, M-Sport body styling front/rear/sills, M badge on 6-speed gear lever, M badge on door sills and sometimes peddle rest. The package is normally a few thousand GBP/EUR extra so good value for the above.

M-Sport suspension traditionally provides, special dampers, spring and bushing. Just lowering the car, aftermarket, will not give the same ride/handling as the bushing also need to be change (tricky)!

M-Sport is yet to be confirmed on the F10, the UK normally get M-Sport six-months after initial launch - I think I read somewhere that overt 60% of UK buyers go for M-Sport on some models so it very desirable here.
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Last edited by carl_d; 04-09-2010 at 02:53 AM..
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      04-08-2010, 02:02 PM   #35
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Interesting discussion. The main question is - imo - if the standard suspension, so without all the 'mumbo-jumbo' electronics, gives a better ride than the current model. With a better ride I mean less harsh / bumpy (i.e. like the 5-series before the E60 drove, that was a great car).

When I receive the F10 528i with standard suspension and 18inch RFT, I will share the experience with you guys here. Currently I drive the E61 (with nRFT's). Expected delivery date April 29th. So then we have more input for this discussion and helps you to decide on all of these (expensive) systems.
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      04-09-2010, 02:49 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erasmus View Post
Interesting discussion. The main question is - imo - if the standard suspension, so without all the 'mumbo-jumbo' electronics, gives a better ride than the current model. With a better ride I mean less harsh / bumpy (i.e. like the 5-series before the E60 drove, that was a great car).

When I receive the F10 528i with standard suspension and 18inch RFT, I will share the experience with you guys here. Currently I drive the E61 (with nRFT's). Expected delivery date April 29th. So then we have more input for this discussion and helps you to decide on all of these (expensive) systems.
Is this the version Autocar has drive (530d) at this link? ... http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/...E-Auto/248585/

530d engine weight more than 528i engine through, so 528i should ride/handle better!
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Last edited by carl_d; 04-09-2010 at 04:08 AM..
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      04-09-2010, 03:21 PM   #37
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@carl_d: indeed, should be the same car, but then with the real six inline sound (without turbo's of course). I really think that Autocar is a bit biased. The new suspension with the updated RFT's should do the trick (or at least I hope so )
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      04-09-2010, 03:48 PM   #38
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NEWS FLASH

Autoweek (Dutch) has tested the 523i with standard suspension ... no adds whatsoever.

IT IS GREAT !!!!!!

http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=372793
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      04-10-2010, 02:30 PM   #39
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Yes. Seems like there is no real need to get the VDC. Now, I only have to decide whether I really need the M Sport suspension for the 523. The local dealer is not bringing in the 528 or diesel models and the 535 (with the mandatory options) costs 40+% more
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      04-10-2010, 02:48 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nfnc View Post
Yes. Seems like there is no real need to get the VDC. Now, I only have to decide whether I really need the M Sport suspension for the 523. The local dealer is not bringing in the 528 or diesel models and the 535 (with the mandatory options) costs 40+% more
Strange, can't you order a 528i? Maybe another dealer?
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      04-10-2010, 03:00 PM   #41
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Not through the official dealer. It might be possible through a parallel or grey market importer but, that way, you don't have the comfort of an authorised distributor's guarantee and servicing. Or perhaps that is because the 528 is not out yet. Always thought that the 528 represented the best compromise of all the petrol models.
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      04-13-2010, 10:25 AM   #42
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After sitting with my sales agent for some time, and him checking on certain matters, the chassis can tighten only if there is dynamic damping control.

The dynamic drive control is the toggle button which will be present if sport steering wheel and 8 speed sport auto transmission is chosen. But this toggle button works differently depending on whether dynamic damping control is chosen. If chosen, the chassis can tighten. If not, chassis does not tighten. Dynamic drive control refers only to the toggle button.

Dynamic drive 229 is a term that is used confusingly. It is not dynamic driving control. Often, it refers to the active anti-roll bar 229 which is included only if option 2VA is chosen.

Adaptive drive is a term that is used when different technologies are included.

The above is still subject to confirmation by checking the physical f10 which is present already here.
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      04-13-2010, 10:36 AM   #43
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bm323, i dont think this is correct. Here in HK, all f10s come in sports steering and the 8 speed sports auto transmission. i got my sales guy to double check this and he confirmed that there is no toggle button. I will need to choose the dynamic drive option to get this toggle button.
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      04-13-2010, 10:46 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksquare View Post
bm323, i dont think this is correct. Here in HK, all f10s come in sports steering and the 8 speed sports auto transmission. i got my sales guy to double check this and he confirmed that there is no toggle button. I will need to choose the dynamic drive option to get this toggle button.
In UK, using the bmw configurator http://www.bmw.co.uk/bmwuk/ecom4/fra...-bmwuk,00.html

the toggle button appears. Also, Rich is correct in that his car does not have VDC (dynamic damping control) but his has the toggle button. In Singapore too, my sales agent says that the toggle button appears even without VDC.

Have you seen the f10 base model in HK? I managed to peek at it in Singapore (as it's not launched yet) and it has the toggle button. The base 535i here does not have VDC but has sport steering and 8 speed sport auto. But without VDC, the toggle button will not tighten the chassis. It then only affects the steering and gear change.

I would suggest seeking a triple confirmation. I may be mistaken.

Last edited by bm323; 04-13-2010 at 11:01 AM..
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