[footie]

Originally Posted by bm323

If you don't mind my asking, which F10, with what options and rim size have you tested pls?

I tested both stock and VDC on 18" and on 19". On the 18" the difference is still noticeable but on 19" there is a marked difference so I can only imagine that on rims sizes greater than 19" the VDC is a definite, of course this is all in my opinion but I would seriously test drive both setups if you are looking at the 19" or above.

[Cees_T]

I follow the discussion on the ride quality of the F10 with great interest. I currently drive a 525i E60 (218 pk 2007 pre-facelift) with manual 6-speed transmission on 17-inch runflats. I consider the ride quality as good, not great. Since for me handling has a lower priority than ride quality I am seriously considering buying the F10 528i with the dynamic damping control (option 223).

@Erasmus: my dealer checked the user's manual of the car and with option 223 it is possible by means of a switch button to select Comfort - Normal - Sport (not Sport +).

I have read almost every available review of the new F10 (both on the internet and in car magazines) and it appears that ride quality is a very subjective matter. An example: in Auto Motor und Sport (Issue 9, 9 April 2010) the 535i (with Adaptive Drive) and MB E350 CGI were compared. The magazine gave 22 out of 25 for "Federung leer" to the BMW, and 23 out of 25 for the MB. In Auto Bild (issue 11, 19 March 2010) the 530d (with Adaptive Drive) and MB E350 CDI were compared. They gave 19 out of 20 for "Federung" to the BMW and 16 out of 20 to the MB. So according to AMS the MB is more comfy than the BMW whereas Auto Bild says the opposite.

Maybe we are looking for "a sheep with five legs" (Dutch expression for looking for the impossible): the handling of a true BMW with the comfort of a true Mercedes.

[Erasmus]

Originally Posted by Cees_T

@Erasmus: my dealer checked the user's manual of the car and with option 223 it is possible by means of a switch button to select Comfort - Normal - Sport (not Sport +).

Hoi Cees, are you sure about this one? When you use the car configurator on bmw.nl and select the Damper Control (223) with standard automatic gearbox, does it show the select button on the dash? (the sport auto together with the sport steering wheel already give a swith button sport-normal)

[Cees_T]

Hoi Erasmus: I tried the configurator for the F10 on www.bmw.nl, but it says "shortly you will be able to configure in detail your new BMW 5-series" suggesting that the configurator for the F10 is not yet ready.
I studied myself the dynamic damping control in the user's manual of the F10 at my dealer. The manual shows a switch button next to the gear lever. It looks just like the button Sport-Normal you were referring to, but it has an extra setting Comfort.

I look forward to hear about your experience with your new 528i on standard suspension especially in comparison to the ride quality of your current E61.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Cees_T

...@Erasmus: my dealer checked the user's manual of the car and with option 223 it is possible by means of a switch button to select Comfort - Normal - Sport (not Sport +).

Interesting, as the Product Marketing Data Sheet (BMW UK) I've viewed, definitely says with 223 option you get Comfort, Normal, Sport and Sport+ ...DDC is the controller. Sport+ is the Sport setting, with the DSC modified to DTC, as I understand it. Option 2VA also gives the four levels.

Originally Posted by Cees_T

...Maybe we are looking for "a sheep with five legs" (Dutch expression for looking for the impossible): the handling of a true BMW with the comfort of a true Mercedes.

All the 'bells and whistles' should give us a package that has enough variables, that we should all be happy... a sheep with five legs? Well almost.

HighlandPete

[Erasmus]

Originally Posted by Cees_T

Hoi Erasmus: I tried the configurator for the F10 on www.bmw.nl, but it says "shortly you will be able to configure in detail your new BMW 5-series" suggesting that the configurator for the F10 is not yet ready.
I studied myself the dynamic damping control in the user's manual of the F10 at my dealer. The manual shows a switch button next to the gear lever. It looks just like the button Sport-Normal you were referring to, but it has an extra setting Comfort.

I look forward to hear about your experience with your new 528i on standard suspension especially in comparison to the ride quality of your current E61.

I will do so. And of course: unbiased For me the handling (with handling I mean the corner throw stuff) is less important than the comfort level (the normal feel when driving various roads). When I want the handling stuff, I use the Porsche 997.

[Erasmus]

Originally Posted by Cees_T

Hoi Erasmus: I tried the configurator for the F10 on www.bmw.nl, but it says "shortly you will be able to configure in detail your new BMW 5-series" suggesting that the configurator for the F10 is not yet ready.
I studied myself the dynamic damping control in the user's manual of the F10 at my dealer. The manual shows a switch button next to the gear lever. It looks just like the button Sport-Normal you were referring to, but it has an extra setting Comfort.

I look forward to hear about your experience with your new 528i on standard suspension especially in comparison to the ride quality of your current E61.

I've checked the car configurator but it doesn't show a select button left to the automatic gearbox (standard 8-step) when you select option 223 "Elektronische schokdemperregeling (EDC)"

[gorban]

Originally Posted by Erasmus

I've checked the car configurator but it doesn't show a select button left to the automatic gearbox (standard 8-step) when you select option 223 "Elektronische schokdemperregeling (EDC)"

You get the toggle button next to the gear lever when you have Driving Dynamic Control which comes with the sports automatic, or if you select EDC or Dynamic Drive. You'll need the toggle to switch between the Comfort, Sport, Normal, Sport and Sport+ modes. Comfort is only available with the variable dampers.

The configurator isn't always 100 % correct in it's visual representation of the selected options.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Erasmus

I've checked the car configurator but it doesn't show a select button left to the automatic gearbox (standard 8-step) when you select option 223 "Elektronische schokdemperregeling (EDC)"

Doesn't show on the UK configurator either, or for Active Steering.

This is from the UK brochure and is confirmed by BMW Product Marketing.



Note to which options DDC comes as part of the kit. Definitely comes with 223

HighlandPete

[Cees_T]

Originally Posted by Erasmus

I've checked the car configurator but it doesn't show a select button left to the automatic gearbox (standard 8-step) when you select option 223 "Elektronische schokdemperregeling (EDC)"

Today I tried the configurator again at www.bmw.nl and it was working. I selected option 223. Pressing i (information) shows a drawing of the dynamic damping principle. Top left there are 4 icons to show pictures of front and back side of the car you configured; the interior and cockpit icons are not active. How did you visually check option 223?

[Erasmus]

Originally Posted by Cees_T

Today I tried the configurator again at www.bmw.nl and it was working. I selected option 223. Pressing i (information) shows a drawing of the dynamic damping principle. Top left there are 4 icons to show pictures of front and back side of the car you configured; the interior and cockpit icons are not active. How did you visually check option 223?

You have to select a fully optioned car ... it seems rather strange, but that's the way it works with the Dutch car conf. So, select leather, (high) executive, and the standard (!) auto gearbox - so not the sporting wheel and the sport gear box, after all that will surely give you the switch button. The question was if 223 as stand-alone option would do it. Now, look at the picture of the interiour ... maybe it is as it's been described above, ie that the conf. is not always correct. If I were you I would double check it, because 223 as a stand-alone option does not show a switch button near the (standard) auto gearbox.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Erasmus

.... If I were you I would double check it, because 223 as a stand-alone option does not show a switch button near the (standard) auto gearbox.

Are you concerned that if you opt for 223 you won't get the DDC switching? I personally wouldn't go too much on the configurator pictures, but you do get the control, as the damping can't be adjusted without.

HighlandPete

[carl_d]

Autoexpress rates F10 with without chassis tricks higher than Merc E and Audi A6

Without its additional Adaptive Drive goodies, the 5-Series lacks that sparkling balance between ride and
handling. However, it still manages to set the dynamic benchmark in this competitive sector. Sharp steering, huge levels of grip and beautifully weighted controls are blended with a comfortable ride and class-leading refinement

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carrevi..._to_drive.html

[bimmernic]

Originally Posted by carl_d

Autoexpress rates F10 with without chassis tricks higher than Merc E and Audi A6

Without its additional Adaptive Drive goodies, the 5-Series lacks that sparkling balance between ride and
handling. However, it still manages to set the dynamic benchmark in this competitive sector. Sharp steering, huge levels of grip and beautifully weighted controls are blended with a comfortable ride and class-leading refinement

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carrevi..._to_drive.html

Thanks for this, carl_d. It is interesting how the same car can garner such different reactions and conclusions. However, the conclusion here is positive indeed Pity they did not include the Jaguar XF in the test.

Full extract below.

QUOTE

Which is best to drive?
Expectations are extremely high here, with customers wanting the latest hi-tech aids to deliver a refined, exciting and engaging driving experience

April 2010

These models have to master every skill in the book. Customer expectations are sky-high in this class, with buyers demanding cars which are comfortable and refined, yet engaging and fun.

Traditionally, BMW has managed to inject its large saloons with more involvement and sharper handling than rivals, and the latest model doesn’t disappoint. When we drove the car on its European launch, it raised the class’s dynamic bar even higher, handling with superb poise.

It achieved this while striking a near perfect balance between taut responses and ride comfort.

That car featured the manufacturer’s clever Adaptive Drive set-up, which proved to be very effective. It is a £2,220 option, and includes variable dampers and active anti-roll bars. However, the model tested here doesn’t have these important additions – so has that changed our opinion?

On bumpy UK roads and fitted with larger, optional, 18-inch wheels, the suspension fidgets over rough surfaces more than cars boasting the variable damper technology, but the ride is still accomplished. It is smoother than the Audi and, while the air-sprung E-Class is well cushioned on the motorway, the trade-off in terms of body control makes the BMW the best compromise of the trio.

Body control is predictably tighter with active roll bars fitted, but the new 5-Series is still the class leader when it comes to cornering composure. Get caught out by a tightening bend, or encounter a big bump, and the BMW maintains its poise where the Mercedes bounces and fidgets.

On twisty roads, the 5-Series turns into corners with precision and sharpness. In contrast, the E-Class (fitted with the £1,395 AirMATIC suspension) suffers from slower-witted steering. And it is never as agile or responsive as the BMW.

The Audi’s over-light steering can’t rival the 5-Series for feedback and feel. However, thanks to tighter body control than the E350, it’s more reassuring than the Mercedes when driven hard. It also provides the security of four-wheel drive, although the 530d’s impressive mechanical grip means a lack of traction will be an issue only in slippery conditions. Even then, the efficient stability control system can be relied on to keep things in check.

In fact, it’s testament to the levels of grip the BMW’s chassis generates that the Mercedes calls upon its traction control more frequently than its sportier rival.

Aside from some judder through the firm walls of the BMW’s run-flat tyres, the 5-Series’ ride is impressively comfortable, too. Its cabin shuts out noise so effectively, it is the most refined car here.

The Audi isn’t as hushed or settled at high speed as either of its opponents, but still makes a fine executive saloon. And quattro four-wheel drive adds to its all-weather prowess.

BMW: 4 stars
Without its additional Adaptive Drive goodies, the 5-Series lacks that sparkling balance between ride and
handling. However, it still manages to set the dynamic benchmark in this competitive sector. Sharp steering, huge levels of grip and beautifully weighted controls are blended with a comfortable ride and class-leading refinement.

Mercedes: 3 stars
The E-Class lacks the dynamic precision of the 5-Series. With slower steering, less grip and extra body roll, it never feels as agile. Even though our car has air-suspension, it’s still matched by the BMW when it comes to overall refinement. Sport models get a stiffer set-up, but in Avantgarde trim the Mercedes simply feels cumbersome in this company.

Audi: 3 stars
Decent body control and reassuring grip ensure four-wheel-drive Audi isn’t totally outclassed here. The trouble is, over rough surfaces the suspension lets shudders into the cabin and the steering is too light and lacks feedback. The over-assisted, sharp brakes are not especially progressive, and recorded the longest
stopping distances of our trio.

UNQUOTE

[carl_d]

Autoexpress also tested against the XF in an earlier issue and the F10 won - just.

The Jaguar used to set the dynamic benchmark in this class, but thanks to its mixture of finesse and refinement, the BMW raises the bar. Not only does it handle with the poise and balance we’ve come to expect from the firm, but it also provides superior comfort and refinement. On twisty roads, its front tyres generate huge amounts of grip, and if you get caught out by a tightening bend, or surprised by an unexpected bump, it maintains its composure with superb body control. Then, when you hit the motorway, the supple suspension provides the kind of soothing ride comfort the Jaguar can’t match.

However, our test car was fitted with optional Adaptive Drive (£2,220). It combines with the standard Dynamic Drive Control, which provides three chassis settings (Normal, Sport and Sport+) and adds a Comfort mode, variable dampers and active anti-roll bars to improve body control.

Read more: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carrevi...#ixzz0mQNMhigM

[HighlandPete]

So when we read the full Auto Express report for the standard car we get "the suspension fidgets over rough surfaces " and "some judder through the firm walls of the BMW’s run-flat tyres" and "without its additional Adaptive Drive goodies, the 5-Series lacks that sparkling balance between ride and handling".

So my drives did find out some imperfections on the basic car? Both the above are alarm bells to me, for day to day driving.

The test against the XF was NOT the basic car, but one with Adaptive Drive and the sport autobox. I hope that combination will be better than the Jaguar XF in standard form, or BMW have lost it.

HighlandPete

[Erasmus]

Originally Posted by carl_d

Autoexpress rates F10 with without chassis tricks higher than Merc E and Audi A6

Without its additional Adaptive Drive goodies, the 5-Series lacks that sparkling balance between ride and
handling. However, it still manages to set the dynamic benchmark in this competitive sector. Sharp steering, huge levels of grip and beautifully weighted controls are blended with a comfortable ride and class-leading refinement

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carrevi..._to_drive.html

Like the 3 Dutch tests and the Swedish: same outcome. We can rest this disussion, it's all about personal opnion and wanting to have that extra 5%.
I rest my case.

[bimmernic]

HighlandPete, hope you don't mind but I thought it would be useful to share what you had posted on the other forum (http://www.bmwland.co.uk/talker/view...06218&start=80) where you had expanded on your observations from your two test drives with the 18" and 19" wheel setups:

Quote

Bob, having read this thread, you have clearly sensed we are being very critical of this new model, the reason, the E60/1 cars have to a degree, disappointed many hardcore users. The reason being as Agh! has commented, is all about run-flat tyres which have meant a set of compromises in the car’s dynamics. To many of us this has meant the cars are not one thing, or the other. I’ll explain, the standard cars, SE models were at launch found to be very ‘bouncy’ and ‘crashy’ on less than perfect roads. The M-sport models were rock hard and far too firm for many users, once off the best of surfaces. The models were improved with the LCI (facelift models) but still not totally sorted, wheel size and tyres make a lot of difference to the way the cars work on all types of roads.

So we are looking for a sorted chassis in the latest cars, F10/11 models.

The F10 is a superb car, no doubt about it, as I said at the beginning a very good place to be. I’d have one tomorrow, specced correctly.

But looking to the 520d as you are, you will be getting a good car, in fact you could be perfectly happy after your past experiences in motors, find it streets ahead of anything you have driven long term.

You mention the auto, I’d think hard about taking the sport box option, the cost is small for the features you get. Besides the steering wheel paddles you get the DDC (Dynamic Drive Control) which means you can tighten the steering feel. A good move in my view.

As to the suspension, the view is M-sport suspension is much more comfortable than the E60 models and possibly the best package will be M-sport suspension with 17” wheels, to get the balance of chassis control with the best comfort levels.

There are guys who have investigated this and feel the M-sport suspension is set between the 'normal' and 'sport' setting of the VDC models. This is reported to be confirmed by BMW themselves.

So a lot will depend on what you want from the car, my own concern would be for standard suspension and 17” wheels, what sort of ride quality will it have over a range of road conditions? Will it feel composed, or tend towards the softer bouncy ride of the E60 cars? It certainly will be better than the E60, no one disputes that fact.

In my original report I tested two different car setups. Since that time I’ve investigated it more, as something didn’t add up from more reading and other forum discussions. I had another visit to the garage, where we got BMW involved, to explain exactly what was on the 535i demo car with the DDC and 19” wheels. It turns out the car only had the sport box (2TB) and 19” wheels, which were different from the standard 530d demo car. So just the slightest spec' change with the ability to tighten the steering, and wheels which appear to run a different frequency over the same roads, can transform the way a car drives. I’ve still to try the full Adaptive Drive package, supposedly designed around the 18” wheel set, but we will see if that is the best, as more reports come back. 20” wheels are definitely getting the thumbs down for drive quality, but there is still varied feedback on how 18” vs. 19” work on the different suspension packages.

On reflection, if I was looking at a 520d, I’d be looking to have the sport box (2TB, includes Drive Dynamic Control), M-sport suspension and 17” wheels. My only question would be on the wheel sizing, but that is more due to my previous experience, and at present, do not know what the best wheel size is for the F10.

Hope this does help, at least a little. Wink

Peter

Unquote

[bimmernic]

Originally Posted by Erasmus

@HighlandPete. We all should move to Germany then. Great roads and for the most part: no speed limits. What are we still doing here? Just joking of course. Your information is really state-of-the-art, thanks for that. The UK road thing could explain the differences in tests. The bad thing is, and I agree on that one, is that you need to tick some expensive electronic option boxes to have you're BMW satisfy one needs. My BMW is being deliverd next weekend, and I will have a full description of the handling etc. on all types of roads with of course the usual 'toss-and-turn' stuff.

Hi Erasmus, so did you get your car last weekend or will it be this weekend instead? Look forward to your impressions. Cheers.

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by nfnc

Hi Erasmus, so did you get your car last weekend or will it be this weekend instead? Look forward to your impressions. Cheers.

Same here. I have to wait another 4 weeks.

(Dus snel 'n beetje met die foto's van die boot en de skyline van Rotterdam op de achtergrond)

Cheers
Robin

[bm323]

Originally Posted by nfnc

Quoting Peter

There are guys who have investigated this and feel the M-sport suspension is set between the 'normal' and 'sport' setting of the VDC models. This is reported to be confirmed by BMW themselves.

On reflection, if I was looking at a 520d, I’d be looking to have the sport box (2TB, includes Drive Dynamic Control), M-sport suspension and 17” wheels.
Peter

Unquote

Thanks nfnc for posting.

Highland Pete, as regards the M sport suspension being between normal and sport - is this based on what TGII said?

Why did you recommend the M sport and 17 inch wheels pls?

[carl_d]

Originally Posted by bm323

Thanks nfnc for posting.

Highland Pete, as regards the M sport suspension being between normal and sport - is this based on what TGII said?

Why did you recommend the M sport and 17 inch wheels pls?

Autocar confirmed M-Sport is between Normal/Sport in the printed magazine (not online).

I would not assume 17" wheels are better as its likey M-Sport is tunned for 18" wheels - we have yet to get clear position on this?