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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 BMW 5-Series (F10) Forums General 5-Series Sedan and Wagon (F10 / F11) Forum Driving without key FOB in car?
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      02-05-2016, 04:18 AM   #23
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I am not sure I understand your conclusion on how we "Ignored" the warning?!?!?! my wife did not see it as she was probably talking to her brother while pulling away after unloading the cargo.
Either way with the amount of software in the car I am sure BMW can program the car not to move without the Key in the car!! but then again BMW keys are often on the news like the big scandal in UK how keys can be copied from the car without the keys present and the shocking amount of BMW stolen in London to the point BBC and Insurance companies called on BM to do something.
Typically it took a nation to move for them to issue an update software to close the gap.
Apparently KIA make more efforts on this matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mobilejo View Post
If the car gave a warning but it was ignored what else do you want it to do? Stop dead in it's tracks? That could be dangerous.

Last edited by martin mustang; 02-05-2016 at 04:34 AM..
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      02-05-2016, 05:57 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martin mustang View Post
I am not sure I understand your conclusion on how we "Ignored" the warning?!?!?! my wife did not see it as she was probably talking to her brother while pulling away after unloading the cargo.
Either way with the amount of software in the car I am sure BMW can program the car not to move without the Key in the car!! but then again BMW keys are often on the news like the big scandal in UK how keys can be copied from the car without the keys present and the shocking amount of BMW stolen in London to the point BBC and Insurance companies called on BM to do something.
Typically it took a nation to move for them to issue an update software to close the gap.
Apparently KIA make more efforts on this matter.
Sure it wasn't purposefully ignored, but a warning WAS given in that situation and the driver didn't take it on board for whatever reason. I don't see how the car is to blame in that situation

If the car was telling the driver of a low oil pressure or overheating and the driver didn't respond, the situation would have been a lot worse. Yet the key fob warning appears in the exact same place as those other critical warnings. For that reason, I don't ever miss warnings on my car - if the engine is running then I am paying attention to the vehicle regardless.

Having the car not move if the key isn't present is not a solution - it's just a different way of BMW trying to deal with the driver error of not having their key on them and the result in half of the cases of that happening would be people Pee'd off saying they were stranded somewhere dangerous or inconvenient when their car wouldn't move.

I prefer a warning (which I get with my car but it seems from this thread that some people aren't getting this) but with the ability to continue to use the car if need be.

For those who don't get any warning - I would be speaking with the dealer if still under warranty. The car SHOULD (a) not start unless the key is physically inside it and (b) give a warning (which stays on) the second the key leaves the cabin. If it's not doing either of those things something is up.
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      02-05-2016, 09:37 AM   #25
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this is normal, every bmw wont just shut itself off
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      02-05-2016, 10:12 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mobilejo View Post
Having the car not move if the key isn't present is not a solution - it's just a different way of BMW trying to deal with the driver error of not having their key on them and the result in half of the cases of that happening would be people Pee'd off saying they were stranded somewhere dangerous or inconvenient when their car wouldn't move.
No other car that requires physical key is able to move without the key present, so I guess that's what most of us assumed would happen here too. To be fair, I did not test this, or read manual in detail on this particular subject.

I get what you're saying about warnings in general, I just assumed you can't simply drive off without the key. To me it'd be common sense to do, disable gear selection or find some other ways to prevent the car from moving, if the key is not in the car.
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      02-05-2016, 10:29 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bbb34 View Post
No other car that requires physical key is able to move without the key present, so I guess that's what most of us assumed would happen here too. To be fair, I did not test this, or read manual in detail on this particular subject.
Once the car is running and the key is removed afterwards, nearly all UK cars will keep going just like the F10.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=1112311

Do most cars in the US cut out?
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      02-05-2016, 12:37 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mobilejo View Post
Once the car is running and the key is removed afterwards, nearly all UK cars will keep going just like the F10.
Seems that's the case here too, I guess I didn't explain what I meant very well.

What I meant is, if you take older technology, cars with physical key and no start button, you couldn't drive off without the key - I know it's not exactly the same scenario, but I was trying to say that owners cannot be upset "...saying they were stranded..." if they have no key to start with.

I think most folks here just felt that the warning also meant that the car cannot be driven without the key, and clearly we are wrong. Again, to me that would be very common sense thing to do, and probably not that difficult to implement in software. Think of it as additional safety feature that would prevent car theft but also help the owner to not drive off without the key, turn the car off two hours later and not be able to go back home (missed warnings like few did already).

Now I agree with you, it's our responsibility to pay attention to the warnings, no argument there.
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      02-05-2016, 12:48 PM   #29
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The minimum BMW can do keep the warning reappearing, my wife and the guy in this tread who discovered the key was with him at Airport Security both missed that initial warning and after that was business as normal.
I see fare more inconvenience and risks by letting the car drive off with no key and if the engine is switched off after a good few miles you stranded not able to lock your car or drive back to your key.
And trust me with 3 kids in the back, driving away while talking to someone else is very double to the best of us. I just find the warning setup a lazy one from BMW, vibrating key for KIA's when they cost half the price of BM's is simply not on.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mobilejo View Post
Sure it wasn't purposefully ignored, but a warning WAS given in that situation and the driver didn't take it on board for whatever reason. I don't see how the car is to blame in that situation

If the car was telling the driver of a low oil pressure or overheating and the driver didn't respond, the situation would have been a lot worse. Yet the key fob warning appears in the exact same place as those other critical warnings. For that reason, I don't ever miss warnings on my car - if the engine is running then I am paying attention to the vehicle regardless.

Having the car not move if the key isn't present is not a solution - it's just a different way of BMW trying to deal with the driver error of not having their key on them and the result in half of the cases of that happening would be people Pee'd off saying they were stranded somewhere dangerous or inconvenient when their car wouldn't move.

I prefer a warning (which I get with my car but it seems from this thread that some people aren't getting this) but with the ability to continue to use the car if need be.

For those who don't get any warning - I would be speaking with the dealer if still under warranty. The car SHOULD (a) not start unless the key is physically inside it and (b) give a warning (which stays on) the second the key leaves the cabin. If it's not doing either of those things something is up.
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      02-06-2016, 10:36 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martin mustang View Post
The minimum BMW can do keep the warning reappearing, my wife and the guy in this tread who discovered the key was with him at Airport Security both missed that initial warning and after that was business as normal.
I see fare more inconvenience and risks by letting the car drive off with no key and if the engine is switched off after a good few miles you stranded not able to lock your car or drive back to your key.
And trust me with 3 kids in the back, driving away while talking to someone else is very double to the best of us. I just find the warning setup a lazy one from BMW, vibrating key for KIA's when they cost half the price of BM's is simply not on.
I agree - a vibrating remote would be kick a$$.

I also do think the warning could be more persistent without being irritating; I get the warning on the dash and a warning screen takes over the idrive screen for a while, then they both go away and all I have is the little triangle in the dash to alert to me that something is up, but that is quite small and if you are already low washer fluid or something you would have had the triangle up anyway and so not necessarily take any of notice it. Now I don't want to be dinged constantly like a seatbelt chime, but maybe an alert every 3 minutes or so would be good.

One thing I noticed is the warning says "remote control not present - engine cannot be started!". It seems that the remote/key is not for driving, only for starting. That's the crux of it I guess.
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      05-30-2018, 05:12 PM   #31
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Exclamation Car drives without fob present

My x3 (and a previous Nissan vehicle) has driven for miles without a fob present. This is how it happened: I started my car with fob present on my key ring, realized i forgot something in the house, left car running, needed my keys to enter the house, got back in running car and drove 20 miles to shopping center. Turned off car, went shopping, came out to car, searched frantically for my keys, (retracing my steps in Costco!!!!!), finally called home to get someone to bring me spare fob only to be told my keys were on counter at home. This can be done over and over again.

Today it happened again. I called BMW (not my local dealer), explained the problem and the person said was going to connect me to my local dealer. I hung up and called them myself and scheduled a service appointment.

This is, at a minimum, a hassle, and at a maximum, unsafe. You should not be able to drive without fob present in the vehicle.
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      05-30-2018, 06:39 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishhead View Post
My x3 (and a previous Nissan vehicle) has driven for miles without a fob present. This is how it happened: I started my car with fob present on my key ring, realized i forgot something in the house, left car running, needed my keys to enter the house, got back in running car and drove 20 miles to shopping center. Turned off car, went shopping, came out to car, searched frantically for my keys, (retracing my steps in Costco!!!!!), finally called home to get someone to bring me spare fob only to be told my keys were on counter at home. This can be done over and over again.

Today it happened again. I called BMW (not my local dealer), explained the problem and the person said was going to connect me to my local dealer. I hung up and called them myself and scheduled a service appointment.

This is, at a minimum, a hassle, and at a maximum, unsafe. You should not be able to drive without fob present in the vehicle.
It is made this way for safety reasons. If the car shutdown without the fob in the car it could be potentially dangerous. IE your battery in the FOB goes weak, then the car can't sense the fob anymore , car shuts off, but there is one problem, this happens on the interstate while you are going 70 mph... That is why the car will stay on til you shut it down and try to start it again.
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      05-31-2018, 04:48 AM   #33
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Also from your story, you needed the keys to get into your house, which means you left your house unlocked too.
To carry on with that, should your house stop functioning because you left it unlocked?
Or should it be that you lock it and then it quits functioning?
Is that how your house works?
Did your house let you know you left it unlocked?
There are many reasons for letting the car continue to run.
This is the way they chose and you have the right not purchase because of that.
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      05-31-2018, 12:18 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishhead View Post
My x3 (and a previous Nissan vehicle) has driven for miles without a fob present. This is how it happened: I started my car with fob present on my key ring, realized i forgot something in the house, left car running, needed my keys to enter the house, got back in running car and drove 20 miles to shopping center. Turned off car, went shopping, came out to car, searched frantically for my keys, (retracing my steps in Costco!!!!!), finally called home to get someone to bring me spare fob only to be told my keys were on counter at home. This can be done over and over again.

Today it happened again. I called BMW (not my local dealer), explained the problem and the person said was going to connect me to my local dealer. I hung up and called them myself and scheduled a service appointment.

This is, at a minimum, a hassle, and at a maximum, unsafe. You should not be able to drive without fob present in the vehicle.
So you didnt lock the house!
You didnt try to lock the car once you got to Costco! Otherwise you would have realized you left your key
You've got bigger issues!!!! LOL
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      05-31-2018, 12:48 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnook123 View Post
I discovered something about my 528i today that is a bit disturbing. I got in my car, started it and proceeded to drive about 45 miles from my home without the key fob in the car. Luckily, I did not shut the car off before I noticed that I did not have my key. I never dreamed this would be possible!!!

Near as I can figure, the key hangs on a hook just inside the door right by the garage. It must have been close enough for the car to start. What disturbs me is the car gave no warning whatsoever that the key fob was out of range until I opened my car door 45 miles from home!!

Anyone ever experience this? Know of a fix??

Obviously, I need to move the key fob further away from the car in the house. Otherwise, my car is a sitting duck for theft!!
- the key will not start the car even if it directly outside of the door. It could be 1CM out of your car and it won't start. the key must physically be inside of the car.

- It's very strange that you did not get a warning message. as soon as the key goes out the car while the engine is running, you should get a warning message about it right away. maybe you just didnt notice?
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      05-31-2018, 04:28 PM   #36
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It isn't magic. All cars that do this, like even my 10 year old corvette, have a couple of antennas in the car to determine where is space the key fob is. When calibrated correctly like on my F10's, this works great. No way to lock with the fob in the car, no way to start with out it. Corvette not so great but mostly trouble free.

They should warn you when you take the fob out of the car, mine do. It does not kill the engine because that could be potentially fatal or at least make it impossible to drive back to the where you left the fob.

If the range of the fob is bad, try changing the battery. If the car doesn't correctly determine inside/outside, you should consider going to a shop because the locator system has probably developed a fault.
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      09-05-2018, 08:13 PM   #37
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A couple years ago, I was coming from the gym and picking up my kids from daycare. I had no pockets in my shorts. So when I went to strap them into their car seats, I just tossed to key on top of the sunroof. Then I proceeded to hop in the car, start it up, and drive away. I realized when I got home I no longer had the key, because I had no house keys either. My wife found it out on the main road outside our subdivision on her way home a few minutes later. Unfortunately, run over by a car, so pretty beat up.

Push button start/stop is pretty much entirely a worthless gimmick to begin with, then add to it that you can easily drive away without your car keys?? I realize it was my error, but what a shitty implementation of a stupid system.
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      09-05-2018, 08:27 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mko9 View Post
A couple years ago, I was coming from the gym and picking up my kids from daycare. I had no pockets in my shorts. So when I went to strap them into their car seats, I just tossed to key on top of the sunroof. Then I proceeded to hop in the car, start it up, and drive away. I realized when I got home I no longer had the key, because I had no house keys either. My wife found it out on the main road outside our subdivision on her way home a few minutes later. Unfortunately, run over by a car, so pretty beat up.

Push button start/stop is pretty much entirely a worthless gimmick to begin with, then add to it that you can easily drive away without your car keys?? I realize it was my error, but what a shitty implementation of a stupid system.
There should be an iDrive warning (audible as well) when the key is out of range. I get it when I just run into the house with the fob in my pocket.
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      09-06-2018, 06:29 PM   #39
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I get that error if I start the car with the key in my pocket, then get out of the car to do something. But the car is apparently perfectly happy to start with the fob sitting on the sunroof. The fob was never even in the car, so no error.
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      09-06-2018, 10:26 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mko9 View Post
I get that error if I start the car with the key in my pocket, then get out of the car to do something. But the car is apparently perfectly happy to start with the fob sitting on the sunroof. The fob was never even in the car, so no error.
The error should have popped-up as soon as you were out of range of the fob...
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      09-07-2018, 03:54 PM   #41
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In this case, it did not. I didn't notice until I parked and turned it off, then started looking for my house keys. Dunno
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      09-07-2018, 05:13 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnook123 View Post
I discovered something about my 528i today that is a bit disturbing. I got in my car, started it and proceeded to drive about 45 miles from my home without the key fob in the car. Luckily, I did not shut the car off before I noticed that I did not have my key. I never dreamed this would be possible!!!

Near as I can figure, the key hangs on a hook just inside the door right by the garage. It must have been close enough for the car to start. What disturbs me is the car gave no warning whatsoever that the key fob was out of range until I opened my car door 45 miles from home!!

Anyone ever experience this? Know of a fix??

Obviously, I need to move the key fob further away from the car in the house. Otherwise, my car is a sitting duck for theft!!
I can have the ley right outside the door with door open sitting half way in to press the button and says no key detected. Id look into that something seems off.
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      09-13-2018, 03:25 PM   #43
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My buddy's E90 just did the same thing but they realized the fob was missing 350 miles into the road trip when they stopped for lunch, turned the car off when wanting to lock it.

He thought the keys were in his GFs purse and she thought he had them.

My F10 will start warning right away but their situation was unique.

GF actually put the keys on top of the car before the road trip. Car started fine, drove off fine and when the keys flew off the roof, did not give any warning.

After all said and done, they found what was left over from the keys on the side of the road.

Apparently the warning does not work if the car is already in motion :-)

Thx BMW!
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      09-13-2018, 04:48 PM   #44
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The system isn't magic or a mind reader. There are a couple of antennas in the car that the system uses to roughly determine or triangulate the position the fob and then decide whether it is inside or out.

The sides of the car work pretty well in the f10. From a number of people saying leaving the fob on the roof and still being able to start the car probably means that there are no antennas in the floor or roof but only left and right sides (sometimes back). This seems to be pretty typical as one of my cars from 2008 also works the same way. So putting the fob on the roof just looks like it is inside the cabin between the left and the right sides of the car since it isn't determining elevation.

I can see how it isn't really worth it fo the car makers to add another antenna just to tell the difference between inside and on the roof. Too bad for the few people who do this and had trouble.
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