2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
 

2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 BIMMERPOST Universal Forums Professional Motorsport Racing Discussion (IMSA, DTM, Formula 1, Grand-AM, Le Mans, IRL, WRC, etc..) F1: Azerbaijan GP '21
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      06-07-2021, 09:44 AM   #309
GuidoK
#buildnotbought
GuidoK's Avatar
2832
Rep
2,902
Posts

Drives: Z4 3.0i ESS TS2+
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Tinkering in the garage

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Except for everytime HAM or someone else reset fastest lap, he responded almost every time on the next lap to get it back.
That automatically happens if you want to keep the gap constant.
Anyway, everyone could see that VER easily pulled away after the safetycar situation and then kept the gap constant. That means he could go faster than he was, and as he didn't he spared the equipment.
If the tyres would have deterioared, it would have shown in his lap times, not in blowing up a tyre.
You can also clearly see that after the crash, the surface of the tyres (the areas that weren't affected by the crash) still look in pretty good shape.
This is clearly a structural problem and not a wear problem.

That no one came in during safetycar is logical. At that time no one knew that it could be a structural problem. Hindsight 20/20 is always so easy, but if the crashed car is still on the track, no one knows anything.
You have to take that into account.

Only after VER crashed, again without any reason, the notion came that it could be a structural problem.
__________________
Z4 3.0i | ESS TS2+ | Quaife ATB LSD | Brembo/BMW performance BBK front/rear | Schrick FI cams | Schmiedmann headers+cats | Powerflex/strongflex PU bushings | Vibra-technics engine mounts | H&R anti rollbars | KW V3 coilovers | Sachs performance clutch
Appreciate 3
M5Rick17596.00
EdM51517.00
      06-07-2021, 09:55 AM   #310
minn19
Major General
minn19's Avatar
United_States
10181
Rep
8,658
Posts

Drives: 19 F150, 21 718, 20 C63S, 212S
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Minnesota

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
That automatically happens if you want to keep the gap constant.
Anyway, everyone could see that VER easily pulled away after the safetycar situation and then kept the gap constant. That means he could go faster than he was, and as he didn't he spared the equipment.
If the tyres would have deterioared, it would have shown in his lap times, not in blowing up a tyre.
You can also clearly see that after the crash, the surface of the tyres (the areas that weren't affected by the crash) still look in pretty good shape.
This is clearly a structural problem and not a wear problem.

That no one came in during safetycar is logical. At that time no one knew that it could be a structural problem. Hindsight 20/20 is always so easy, but if the crashed car is still on the track, no one knows anything.
You have to take that into account.

Only after VER crashed, again without any reason, the notion came that it could be a structural problem.
I disagree with when the notion should of and did come up. I guarantee it was on every team principles mind and most thought it was going to happen to someone again during the race. There is recent historical issues with Pirelli and this happening.

RB/VER and the rest of the leaders gambled it wouldn't happen to them. As said, RB/VER lost on the gamble and that is racing.

They got lucky HAM made a rare error and left with the best possible result after their DNF. And for the rest of us it is good because the WDC is so close for once. It would be cool if they both double DNF'd again and PER could sneak in and make it a three way battle. I know this most likely won't happen, but as a general fan of F1 it would be fun.

Last edited by minn19; 06-07-2021 at 10:02 AM..
Appreciate 1
MKSixer32003.50
      06-07-2021, 10:17 AM   #311
GuidoK
#buildnotbought
GuidoK's Avatar
2832
Rep
2,902
Posts

Drives: Z4 3.0i ESS TS2+
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Tinkering in the garage

iTrader: (0)

I call hindsight 20/20
Also because none of the radio chatter points to this. Only after VER's crash the speculations came, and Horner himself said stuff over the radio

And in what race recently were there random multiple tyre blowouts without tyres being worn to virtually 100%?
__________________
Z4 3.0i | ESS TS2+ | Quaife ATB LSD | Brembo/BMW performance BBK front/rear | Schrick FI cams | Schmiedmann headers+cats | Powerflex/strongflex PU bushings | Vibra-technics engine mounts | H&R anti rollbars | KW V3 coilovers | Sachs performance clutch

Last edited by GuidoK; 06-07-2021 at 10:26 AM..
Appreciate 2
M5Rick17596.00
      06-07-2021, 10:40 AM   #312
Ngilbe36
Captain
Ngilbe36's Avatar
United_States
1601
Rep
880
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 M3, 2019 F150
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: MI

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 BMW E90 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
I call hindsight 20/20
Also because none of the radio chatter points to this. Only after VER's crash the speculations came, and Horner himself said stuff over the radio

And in what race recently were there random multiple tyre blowouts without tyres being worn to virtually 100%?
Silverstone 2020
Appreciate 0
      06-07-2021, 11:06 AM   #313
GuidoK
#buildnotbought
GuidoK's Avatar
2832
Rep
2,902
Posts

Drives: Z4 3.0i ESS TS2+
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Tinkering in the garage

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ngilbe36 View Post
Silverstone 2020
yeah but those tyres were much more worn, and Isola (pirelli) said that there were punctures before the failure of the tyres (which didn't happen in baku, Horner explicitly said that, maybe because of this), so yes issues, but different.
However I think both happened with the hard tyres (the problems in the race at least). Coincidence or not?
Pirelli says they changed the design of the internal structure after silverstone.
__________________
Z4 3.0i | ESS TS2+ | Quaife ATB LSD | Brembo/BMW performance BBK front/rear | Schrick FI cams | Schmiedmann headers+cats | Powerflex/strongflex PU bushings | Vibra-technics engine mounts | H&R anti rollbars | KW V3 coilovers | Sachs performance clutch
Appreciate 2
M5Rick17596.00
      06-07-2021, 11:14 AM   #314
racerbruce
Colonel
racerbruce's Avatar
3276
Rep
2,529
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4MR Imola Red
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (1)

Pirelli say debris likely cause of STR and VER crashes....

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...tO6YTz3Kq.html

If this is true, this means the prior shunts that left a carbon fibre debris field on-track were most likely missed during cleanup by corner workers.

Usually the corner workers are using brooms (archaic) and taking way too long (race delay) during a cleanup.

Perhaps this is a better solution to ensure a more effective clean racing surface and a significant time saver if 3-4 of these were dispatched to a cleanup area:
https://www.google.com/search?q=comm...73910203190390
__________________
Racerbruce
OZ Rims / Bilstein B6 Struts & Shocks / Eibach Pro-Kit Springs / ZHP Control Arms / RE Diablo Exhaust / RPi Air Intake / BMC Air Filter / CDV / RE Trans Mounts / 3M Paint Protection / TMS CF Grilles / TK CF Mirrors / Skyer CF Spoiler / CF Antenna / M Pedals & Dead Pedal / CoCo Floor Mats / WeissLicht LED Rear Turn Signal Lamps / #748 of 3,042
Appreciate 0
      06-07-2021, 11:18 AM   #315
GuidoK
#buildnotbought
GuidoK's Avatar
2832
Rep
2,902
Posts

Drives: Z4 3.0i ESS TS2+
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Tinkering in the garage

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by racerbruce View Post
Pirelli say debris likely cause of STR and VER crashes....
VER predicted yesterday that Pirelli would say that

But as Horner said, there were no prior vibrations or changes in pressure. You'd expect that if you'd hit debris about 5 sec earlier (Stroll's crash site) and subsequently have an exploding tyre.

I'm sure Pirelli is getting to the bottom of this. Eventually
(I'm sure they don't want another tyrecompetitor in F1 which could happen if enough teams press on this matter I reckon...)
__________________
Z4 3.0i | ESS TS2+ | Quaife ATB LSD | Brembo/BMW performance BBK front/rear | Schrick FI cams | Schmiedmann headers+cats | Powerflex/strongflex PU bushings | Vibra-technics engine mounts | H&R anti rollbars | KW V3 coilovers | Sachs performance clutch

Last edited by GuidoK; 06-07-2021 at 11:43 AM..
Appreciate 2
M5Rick17596.00
      06-07-2021, 11:19 AM   #316
yco
i'm just saying
yco's Avatar
4447
Rep
2,560
Posts

Drives: E71 X6M '10 (sold)
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Istanbul & Kyiv

iTrader: (0)

Horner is messing with the wrong guy still.. Wolff is one of the smartest leaders ever in paddock.. not this era one of the best ever.. intelligence wise, leading wise, and human side wise..

__________________
"Race car driving is like sex. All guys think they're good at it." Jay Leno
Appreciate 1
minn1910180.50
      06-07-2021, 11:24 AM   #317
Bubbles
Brigadier General
Bubbles's Avatar
Cayman Islands
1136
Rep
4,088
Posts

Drives: Green Bastard
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bishop Bend

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M5Rick View Post
Both deflations, Strolls and Max's happened at high speed over 310kph so the whole tyre construction is suspect at over 300kph ''with the neg camber that teams use'' but there's not a lot Pirelli can do now.
For safety reasons teams may have to adjust wheel camber to more neutral as the problem seems to be the inside edge giving way with the excessive heat caused to carcass at that speed.
He hit 316kph, then boom.
Attached Images
 
__________________
Appreciate 2
M5Rick17596.00
      06-07-2021, 12:14 PM   #318
M5Rick
Major General
M5Rick's Avatar
United Kingdom
17596
Rep
9,249
Posts

Drives: M5 F10 Gunmetal
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Southern England

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubbles View Post
He hit 316kph, then boom.
Appreciate 1
      06-07-2021, 12:27 PM   #319
M5Rick
Major General
M5Rick's Avatar
United Kingdom
17596
Rep
9,249
Posts

Drives: M5 F10 Gunmetal
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Southern England

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by yco View Post
Horner is messing with the wrong guy still.. Wolff is one of the smartest leaders ever in paddock.. not this era one of the best ever.. intelligence wise, leading wise, and human side wise..

Sorry but
Appreciate 1
      06-07-2021, 12:49 PM   #320
yco
i'm just saying
yco's Avatar
4447
Rep
2,560
Posts

Drives: E71 X6M '10 (sold)
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Istanbul & Kyiv

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M5Rick View Post
Sorry but
i see why you like Horner and Red Bull my friend..
__________________
"Race car driving is like sex. All guys think they're good at it." Jay Leno
Appreciate 2
MKSixer32003.50
      06-07-2021, 01:36 PM   #321
M5Rick
Major General
M5Rick's Avatar
United Kingdom
17596
Rep
9,249
Posts

Drives: M5 F10 Gunmetal
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Southern England

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by yco View Post
i see why you like Horner and Red Bull my friend..
I'll celebrate the day you come over to RB my friend,Merc AMG isn't the one all to end all.
Appreciate 1
      06-07-2021, 01:49 PM   #322
MKSixer
Lieutenant General
MKSixer's Avatar
32004
Rep
11,625
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW i8, E63 M6, 328d
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Southeast United States

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2016 M4 GTS (Allotted)  [0.00]
2013 BMW 328d  [0.00]
2007 BMW M6  [5.00]
2015 BMW i8  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
That automatically happens if you want to keep the gap constant.
Anyway, everyone could see that VER easily pulled away after the safetycar situation and then kept the gap constant. That means he could go faster than he was, and as he didn't he spared the equipment.
If the tyres would have deterioared, it would have shown in his lap times, not in blowing up a tyre.
You can also clearly see that after the crash, the surface of the tyres (the areas that weren't affected by the crash) still look in pretty good shape.
This is clearly a structural problem and not a wear problem.

That no one came in during safetycar is logical. At that time no one knew that it could be a structural problem. Hindsight 20/20 is always so easy, but if the crashed car is still on the track, no one knows anything.
You have to take that into account.

Only after VER crashed, again without any reason, the notion came that it could be a structural problem.
Why would you keep applying pressure from the front with 6 laps left, a 5 or so second lead AND a tail gunner.

I'm sorry but this is a poor decision considering they had information on STRs tire failure earlier. If I'm the TP, I dial it back and cruise across the line.
__________________
Several actors have played James Bond, Sean Connery IS James Bond...
Sir 7ewis, 7X FIA Formula One World Championship, World Driving Champion. 100 Wins. 101 Pole Positions. 54 Fastest Laps. Actual Rain Master. Leave me to it, Bono. One Race Win in each of his 15 years in F1. Most Laps Led in Formula One. The Centurion.
Appreciate 2
minn1910180.50
racerbruce3275.50
      06-07-2021, 02:24 PM   #323
243Racing
Banned
1426
Rep
1,470
Posts

Drives: M2
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: KC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Why would you keep applying pressure from the front with 6 laps left, a 5 or so second lead AND a tail gunner.

I'm sorry but this is a poor decision considering they had information on STRs tire failure earlier. If I'm the TP, I dial it back and cruise across the line.
Armchair quarterbacking an F1 race engineer. In the immortal words of the POTUS, "Come on, man!"
Appreciate 1
      06-07-2021, 02:49 PM   #324
SenorFunkyPants
Brigadier General
SenorFunkyPants's Avatar
United Kingdom
2317
Rep
4,283
Posts

Drives: 2019 M5
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

At least the correct Red Bull driver won the race...I knew that Perez would have a super long pit stop to make sure he didn't come out ahead of Verstappen and Red Bull did exactly that.
Zero f***s given that Verstappen don't win but at least Hamilton evened up the score by knocking on the magic switch.
Roll on to the next one.
Appreciate 2
rcracin1051.50
MKSixer32003.50
      06-07-2021, 03:21 PM   #325
Ngilbe36
Captain
Ngilbe36's Avatar
United_States
1601
Rep
880
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 M3, 2019 F150
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: MI

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 BMW E90 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
At least the correct Red Bull driver won the race...I knew that Perez would have a super long pit stop to make sure he didn't come out ahead of Verstappen and Red Bull did exactly that.
Zero f***s given that Verstappen don't win but at least Hamilton evened up the score by knocking on the magic switch.
Roll on to the next one.
Are you saying that RBR would sabotage their #2 driver to benefit their #1! SAY IT AINT SO. lol.
Yeah, I saw it coming too when it looked like Perez was going to overcut him.
Im sure Horner says it was just an honest mistake from the team consistently doing sub-2sec stops.
Appreciate 2
rcracin1051.50
minn1910180.50
      06-07-2021, 03:29 PM   #326
243Racing
Banned
1426
Rep
1,470
Posts

Drives: M2
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: KC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ngilbe36 View Post
Are you saying that RBR would sabotage their #2 driver to benefit their #1! SAY IT AINT SO. lol.
Yeah, I saw it coming too when it looked like Perez was going to overcut him.
Im sure Horner says it was just an honest mistake from the team consistently doing sub-2sec stops.
Multi twenty-one, Sergio.
Appreciate 0
      06-07-2021, 04:05 PM   #327
EdM5
Lieutenant Colonel
EdM5's Avatar
Netherlands
1517
Rep
1,967
Posts

Drives: F82 M4 CP & E70 X5 Xdrive35d
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Amsterdam

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Why would you keep applying pressure from the front with 6 laps left, a 5 or so second lead AND a tail gunner.

I'm sorry but this is a poor decision considering they had information on STRs tire failure earlier. If I'm the TP, I dial it back and cruise across the line.
In 30 years of watching F1, I've never seen the race leader lift because of a possible tyre blowup.
Lifting because of tyre degradation management or fuel management? Hell yeah but not because of an impending puncture. If they knew the tyre would blow up they would have retired the car but of course they had no clue.

Very unfair to blame RB/Max for this. The fact that he set the FL is also no proof of him pushing - the fuel load simply got minimal towards the end of the race.
__________________
2004 e87 118d (ret.), 2007 e92 330d (ret.), 2007 e87 130i M-sport (ret.), 2009 e92 M3 (ret.), 2010 f10 535d M-sport (ret.), 2015 f10 M5 CP (ret.)
2017 f82 M4 CP & 2009 e70 X5 35d
Appreciate 3
      06-07-2021, 04:34 PM   #328
GuidoK
#buildnotbought
GuidoK's Avatar
2832
Rep
2,902
Posts

Drives: Z4 3.0i ESS TS2+
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Tinkering in the garage

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Why would you keep applying pressure from the front with 6 laps left, a 5 or so second lead AND a tail gunner.
Because something can also happen to your tail gunner. (all it takes is that one DRS attempt that happens to work...)
Having a ~5 sec lead gives you some room for error.
No race leader lets that 5sec gap diminish to 1sec on purpose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EdM5 View Post
If they knew the tyre would blow up they would have retired the car but of course they had no clue.
Only MKSixer had a clue. That's why he hangs out on this forum and accomplished engineers that know nothing are on the payroll of RB
Didn't you see his post here prior to the accident where he warned us about it going to happen? Oh wait...

Bachelor's wives and maid's children are well taught I guess.
__________________
Z4 3.0i | ESS TS2+ | Quaife ATB LSD | Brembo/BMW performance BBK front/rear | Schrick FI cams | Schmiedmann headers+cats | Powerflex/strongflex PU bushings | Vibra-technics engine mounts | H&R anti rollbars | KW V3 coilovers | Sachs performance clutch

Last edited by GuidoK; 06-07-2021 at 04:45 PM..
Appreciate 4
EdM51517.00
M5Rick17596.00
      06-07-2021, 05:04 PM   #329
///M Power-Belgium
Lieutenant General
///M Power-Belgium's Avatar
Belgium
32796
Rep
17,295
Posts

Drives: ///M3-E92-DCT Silverstone II
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdott View Post
Yes he made a big mistake, but he owned up to it right away.

No excuses, back peddling or stories.
What ? You can't be serious ..
I heard many excuses and stories in 7Hammy's interviews regarding his stupid lock up !
In other words : How he managed to f@ck it completely up...
__________________
BPM DEV-Tune & DCT Software-Tune & Servotronic & coding ///Alpine HID Angeleyes ///Oem.exhaust mod.
Appreciate 1
M5Rick17596.00
      06-07-2021, 05:13 PM   #330
///M Power-Belgium
Lieutenant General
///M Power-Belgium's Avatar
Belgium
32796
Rep
17,295
Posts

Drives: ///M3-E92-DCT Silverstone II
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by EdM5 View Post
In 30 years of watching F1, I've never seen the race leader lift because of a possible tyre blowup.
Lifting because of tyre degradation management or fuel management? Hell yeah but not because of an impending puncture. If they knew the tyre would blow up they would have retired the car but of course they had no clue.

Very unfair to blame RB/Max for this. The fact that he set the FL is also no proof of him pushing - the fuel load simply got minimal towards the end of the race.
How about this ?
Attached Images
 
__________________
BPM DEV-Tune & DCT Software-Tune & Servotronic & coding ///Alpine HID Angeleyes ///Oem.exhaust mod.
Appreciate 1
M5Rick17596.00
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:26 PM.




5post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST