[tomppa]

Thanks Blue Angel, for the informative table. I am looking to replace (upgrade) my rear (345x24) rotors soon, so decided to have a closer look at the table. Couple of questions arised:
1. Why are the F01/750 and F01/760 on the comparison? I thought we'd loose the hand brake if using them, as they don't have the electronic one. How was it with M5, I don't know. I read the long thread about brake upgrades but there was a lot to read, so might have missed that one.
2. In the table 750 and 760 present same ID, piston dia etc. yet % increase is different. Where does the difference come from?
3. Brake bias ranking. Is this a ranking of the total torques, not the rear only? If so, what can I use this information for?
4. Does higher torque give you lighter pedal press or how do I perveice it? In this case, could a low torque be compensated with more efficient booster (or different size of master cylinder)?

I am looking at the column of 550, so there aren't so many options for me to upgrade...

Originally Posted by Blue Angel

OK, so I found the M5 front caliper piston sizes (30, 34, 36mm) and the brake rotor info from some assumptions made based on info from this page:

https://racingbrake.com/2472/

This is a steel replacement for the 410mm front ceramic rotor, but they state on the technical drawing to use the iron brake pads which are 77mm deep. This would give us a 400mm disc with a (400 - (2 x 77mm)) = 265mm ID for the braking surface. This isn't far off the other F10 braking systems so I'm going with it.

The rear M5 brakes us the same caliper and pad as the 550, just on a 396mm rotor, so I just scaled up the 550 system to 396mm.

NOTE: This chart is for US spec cars. EU spec F10s often have larger braking systems than the US cars.



Note the M5 system has the highest rear brake bias (37.1%) of all the OEM F10 braking systems. Rear brakes on most passenger cars are set up from the factory to favor understeer (front losing traction first) since it's considered safer. The M5 is set up for a more performance oriented balance and takes advantage of added rear brake torque.

The M5 has less front caliper piston area than any other option for the F10 (6.9% less than 60mm F10 calipers, and 5.2% less than the medium 40/44mm G11 caliper). It creates its braking torque advantage through its huge front discs. It uses a bespoke master cylinder, and I now wonder if it's because it requires less displacement? Not entirely sure what the difference is to the standard F10 master cylinder now...

The M5 uses the same 44mm rear caliper piston size as the rest of the F10 lineup, but pairs that with huge 396mm discs to increase rear braking torque and maintain the desired F/R bias given its front brakes.

Here's a graph showing the total braking torque of all the different models and swap upgrade options. Again, this assumes the same brake line pressure and brake pad coefficient of friction for all systems.

[Blue Angel]

Originally Posted by tomppa

Thanks Blue Angel, for the informative table. I am looking to replace (upgrade) my rear (345x24) rotors soon, so decided to have a closer look at the table. Couple of questions arised:
1. Why are the F01/750 and F01/760 on the comparison? I thought we'd loose the hand brake if using them, as they don't have the electronic one. How was it with M5, I don't know. I read the long thread about brake upgrades but there was a lot to read, so might have missed that one.
2. In the table 750 and 760 present same ID, piston dia etc. yet % increase is different. Where does the difference come from?
3. Brake bias ranking. Is this a ranking of the total torques, not the rear only? If so, what can I use this information for?
4. Does higher torque give you lighter pedal press or how do I perveice it? In this case, could a low torque be compensated with more efficient booster (or different size of master cylinder)?

I am looking at the column of 550, so there aren't so many options for me to upgrade...

1. F01 750 and 760 rear brake rotor (same) requires the F10 M5 rear caliper (or 550 caliper and M5 carrier), which both use the same electric parking brake as other F10s.
2. % increase is only relative to the next column to the left. The rear F01 760 is the same as the rear 750 so 0% increase, and the rear F01 750 is 8.8% higher than the F10 550.
3. Yes, ranked by total braking torque. Brake bias front to rear is only for comparison. I did this so we could see what the different system combinations offered compared to the M5, which is probably the most rear-biased setup you should shoot for on a street car.
4. Assuming the same brake pad coefficient of friction, a brake system with more torque would equate to more deceleration for a given pedal force. Given the difference between the M5 and 528 is only 15%, a grippy pad on the 528 could give equivalent or better braking than the M5. Of course, the M5 brakes are massive by comparison and can handle far more heat, so more repeat stops or stops from higher speeds without overheating. It's all about thermal mass. And bling.

[Double Nickel]

Do the Xdrive f10 and Rwd have different knuckles for the 374 swap? Can i use the 2014 750i knuckle? Yes mine is Rwd

[Hoa]

Originally Posted by Double Nickel

Do the Xdrive f10 and Rwd have different knuckles for the 374 swap? Can i use the 2014 750i knuckle? Yes mine is Rwd

The hub bearing is the same for 5, 6, and 7. The carrier that the caliper and hub bearing are only interchangeable with 5 and 6. RWD and xDrive have different carrier

[Double Nickel]

Originally Posted by Hoa

The hub bearing is the same for 5, 6, and 7. The carrier that the caliper and hub bearing are only interchangeable with 5 and 6. RWD and xDrive have different carrier

So i need xdrive carrier?

[Hoa]

Originally Posted by Double Nickel

So i need xdrive carrier?

No, you do not need to change it out to upgrade to newer 374 calipers. They bolt on directly. Some may need 6mm washers. Most that I have done uses 4mm

[Double Nickel]

Originally Posted by Hoa

No, you do not need to change it out to upgrade to newer 374 calipers. They bolt on directly. Some may need 6mm washers. Most that I have done uses 4mm

They still sent the wrong pad, look like 374 single pot with a clip dont even fit in

[Hoa]

Originally Posted by Double Nickel

They still sent the wrong pad, look like 374 single pot with a clip dont even fit in

The pads, you will have to order them as a G series car like a 2020 750

[Double Nickel]

Originally Posted by Hoa

The pads, you will have to order them as a G series car like a 2020 750

So something like these?

[Double Nickel]

From all i gathered today is a set of the brembo pads for the 750xi with a lil trim will have me bolted up, so now my question is will trimming mess with the wear sensor?

[cb2004mj]

No when they say trimming they are referring to the bottom of the pad. May need to cut 1/4" or less off the hub side of the pad and backing plate to clear the hub side of the rotor. When you go to install you'll see exactly what's up.

[cb2004mj]

Also my new pads had a slight clunk at very low speed braking. Like radio off through the neighborhood could hear it but that was it. So after some digging I bought some 3m 468 high temp adhesive tape and put it on the back of the pads where the pistons lay. This is just like the OEM pads come. Now no more clunky. So if you have this issue with your new 374/395 rotor and caliper setup this is the easy fix. Also I had some slight pedal softness after my install. Quick abs cycle and rebleed brought it back to rock hard and consistent braking and pedal. Just some informative tips for those doing the swap if you get those minor road bumps

[Hoa]

Originally Posted by Double Nickel

From all i gathered today is a set of the brembo pads for the 750xi with a lil trim will have me bolted up, so now my question is will trimming mess with the wear sensor?

Yes, like the pads you posted.
Pads does not have to be trimmed if you have the right rotors. If you use rotors from F01 like a 2015 750 then no trimming at all. Sensor will clip right in without any mods.

[Double Nickel]

Originally Posted by Hoa

Yes, like the pads you posted.
Pads does not have to be trimmed if you have the right rotors. If you use rotors from F01 like a 2015 750 then no trimming at all. Sensor will clip right in without any mods.

Thats the problem the rotor i have the hat is 205mm i think it was and the pad is a lil long, if trimming a tad wont hurt the pad thats what im going to do. They are a Powerstop rotors for 2014 750i they fit the caliper very well its just the pads.

[Hoa]

Originally Posted by Double Nickel

Thats the problem the rotor i have the hat is 205mm i think it was and the pad is a lil long, if trimming a tad wont hurt the pad thats what im going to do. They are a Powerstop rotors for 2014 750i they fit the caliper very well its just the pads.

Maybe powerstop made the hat for their rotor a little too big. I use OEM rotor and it cleared without any issue

[Double Nickel]

Originally Posted by Hoa

Maybe powerstop made the hat for their rotor a little too big. I use OEM rotor and it cleared without any issue

I got you, what you think on trimming the pad?

[Double Nickel]

I was going to try the Brembo pads thats in the calipers now for markup and order a new set if all goes well.

[Hoa]

Originally Posted by Double Nickel

I got you, what you think on trimming the pad?

I personally have never done it but I know the material can be brittle and chip so trim it carefully and it should be okay

[Double Nickel]

Originally Posted by Hoa

I personally have never done it but I know the material can be brittle and chip so trim it carefully and it should be okay

Yeah, thats what i was thinking im looking at Grant Johnson YT vid on it now and it looks okay.

[automaz_]

So far the install has been going great at the shop until just the drivers side caliper … the brake line would not seat properly

The shop tried to remove the brake line and needed to take out the nut at top that’s connect to the abs line

They tried anti seize overnight and in the morning attempted to twist but the abs line bent

Luckily they found that the line that bent does not go to the master cyclinder but to the abs module

Seems like the drivers side line is shortest as the abs module is in the front wheel well.

Anyone every change these lines? What exactly is needed to do an electronic abs bleed?

Any tips of remove the old line and putting in new one? I’m the diagram below the line labeled (8) is the line being changed and going into the abs module with 4 slots

The picture in the bottoms shows the abs module and the place he is pointing to is the slow the line goes into

[bk_mike]

Originally Posted by automaz_

So far the install has been going great at the shop until just the drivers side caliper … the brake line would not seat properly

The shop tried to remove the brake line and needed to take out the nut at top that’s connect to the abs line

They tried anti seize overnight and in the morning attempted to twist but the abs line bent

Luckily they found that the line that bent does not go to the master cyclinder but to the abs module

Seems like the drivers side line is shortest as the abs module is in the front wheel well.

Anyone every change these lines? What exactly is needed to do an electronic abs bleed?

Any tips of remove the old line and putting in new one? I’m the diagram below the line labeled (8) is the line being changed and going into the abs module with 4 slots

The picture in the bottoms shows the abs module and the place he is pointing to is the slow the line goes into

Never done these on a BMW but changing the line itself should be simple. If the lines look rusted soak them in PB blaster overnight and make sure you use a flare nut wrench, not just a open ended wrench. The extra points of contact make a huge difference.

Your best bet when changing fluid on a F10 or other BMW with brake lines that route through several pumps is to use ISTA and a pressure bleeder. ISTA cycles the pumps and walks you through the process.

[Double Nickel]

So i found out that a 348 pad will work but you have to slot the retaining pin hole, at this point im trying both methods later this week🤞🏾