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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 BMW 5-Series (F10) Forums General 5-Series Sedan and Wagon (F10 / F11) Forum F10 initial thoughts and variable damper control / adaptive drive
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      08-17-2010, 03:46 AM   #23
gorban
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
Why do you say so? Do you find post#1 in http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=416668 incorrect?
Because of this sentence from Rsyed: "I am not sure how adaptive drive may change throttle or steering response. I only thought that you have this if you took the sport automatic and/or active steering: both independant of the adaptive drive."
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      08-17-2010, 04:35 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gorban View Post
Because of this sentence from Rsyed: "I am not sure how adaptive drive may change throttle or steering response. I only thought that you have this if you took the sport automatic and/or active steering: both independant of the adaptive drive."
but the link confirms (what i said) that throttle and steering response changes only if you have sport automatic and/or active steering.

@blackberrycubed:
the question is not whether sport + dynamic handling or sport plus Sport auto transmission. The dynamic handling (affects suspension and active roll) complements the sport auto transmission (affects steering, gearbox and throttle response) - in europe you can take both if you like.

@Krell:
so what have you decided? still sleepless nights?

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      08-17-2010, 07:12 AM   #25
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I've got a headache with all the possible alternatives :-(

The idea of 18" wheels, non-run flat tyres and no chasis aids appeals - but I'm still bothered by what would happen in the event of a puncture, even if I had a repair kit. I like the idea of being able to drive to a safe place even with a puncture because I can't see myself messing with a repair kit when its -4 celcius outside :-)

The M-Sport package initially appealed to me because I mistakingly thought it came with 19" wheels as standard. I'm not too bothered about having the body kit, seats etc so I'm going to pass on it. The SE looks nice enough.

When it comes to the engine, it's got to be the 520d for me. I'll certainly look out for the vibration mentioned in an earlier post on my next test drive, but it makes the most sense. As many motoring journalists have said, it almost makes the other cars in the range irrelevant. However, if I had the money to burn and didn't care about running costs I would definately go for a option laden 530d :-)

At the moment it looks like I'll have to tick the variable damping control (VDC) option box because it gave a much better ride than without - but I'll have to try it with 18" wheels without VDC first in case the 19" wheels was the cause of the poor ride quality.

The final decision rests with whether I go for the F10 or F11. I haven't ordered anything yet because I want to see the F11 in the metal first. It looks great in the press shots (arguably better looking than the F10) and with two growing kids, it makes sense - though my heart tells me to get the F10. The F11 may ride differently to the F10 because of the self levelling rear suspension so that's another factor to consider.

The options I'm looking at are:

Imperial blue Xirallic
18" wheels (style 328)
Oyster/Black Dakota leather
Media Package - BMW Professional
Sport Automatic transmission
Variable Damper Control
Comfort access
Electric Front seats + Driver memory
Sports steering wheel
USB interface
Front seat heating
Folding & dimming exterior mirrors
Ambient lighting
Automatic tailgate operation (F11 only)
DAB digital radio
Professional loudspeaker system
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      08-17-2010, 07:39 AM   #26
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Puh - you have far too many variables in your decision making process: f10 vs f11, then 530d vs 520d, then stock suspension vs m-suspension vs. adaptive drive vs vdc, then rft vs non-rft....

don't envy you - had enough difficulty myself when choosing between which diesel engine to take, everything else was sorted.... Good lukc and keep us posted!
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      08-17-2010, 08:33 AM   #27
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Hi Krell, I have ordered very similar

520d MSport Imperial blue Xirallic
Oyster/Black Dakota leather
Media Package - BMW Professional
Sport Automatic transmission
USB interface
Front seat heating
Folding & dimming exterior mirrors
Professional loudspeaker system
Speed limit display
Split-folding rear seats
- I've had an E61 in the past, this is the compromise and you can easily get bikes in etc

For company car driver in the UK the 520d is an absolute no-brainer, incredible value for money both on leasing rates and taxation. Yes, the E60 520d is a bit feeble below 1700rpm, but with auto in sport mode it is not an issue.

MSport package - after adding what for me are some key extras to the SE, you end up with a small difference to getting the MSport
- 18" alloys (the E60 19s are too prone to kerb damage in real life)
- M suspension, I really like the handling (at least on E60) and probably wouldn't use VDC adjustment on a daily basis
- Sports seats are much more supportive than the standard ones
- Slightly smaller steering wheel actually makes a big difference
- Anthracite headliner, not essential but fits much better to Oyster/Black

Comfort access - for me it's a luxury item given that the only difference now is you don't need to press the key to open the car.
Ambient lighting - I would have ordered it, but you then get stupid chrome strips on the door handles to match the MSport shadowline trim !
DAB digital radio - I decided not to bother, FM is better quality in many cases and won't be switched off for a long time. I mainly listen to MP3s on a USB HDD.
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      08-17-2010, 09:40 AM   #28
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I've ordered something very similar myself

520d SE touring in black sapphire with Oyster/Black and black gloss
Sports automatic gearbox
18" Style 328

Media pack pro (with combox)
Visibility Pack

Heated sports steering wheel
Active Cruise
Comfort heated seats
Sun protection glass
Folding door mirrors
USB interface
Aircon, extended features
DAB

We have 2 kids and the added practicality of the tourer made it a no-brainer for us.

Test drove the F10 520d on 18" rims around some rough roads, and couldn't really find issue with the ride so decided against the VDC option. It's always difficult to tell enough about ride quality on an hour or so test drive (unless its obviously bad) so I won't know for sure if that was a frugal omission or an annoying mistake, until the car arrives. I've come from owning a Discovery 4 with air suspension so if it had felt too hard I reckon it would have been obvious.
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      08-17-2010, 12:33 PM   #29
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Hi krell, you might find this useful with respect to their comment on the ride on 18" RFTs with VDC:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carrevi...w_520d_se.html

I have read somewhere on the net that the self-leveling suspension on the F11 rides better than the F10. Unfortunately, I have not been able to find the link.

The consensus, at least for the UK press reports, is that the 18" RFT shod F10s ride better with the VDC.

Based on my limited time with the 18" RFTs on the standard suspension, the standard suspension appears to be too soft, with a tendency to crash and thump over road irregularities. Plus, there is a greater degree of body roll.

Excellent choice of exterior/interior combination - mirrors mine Do bear in mind that Imperial Blue tends to change shades depending on lighting conditions, varying from blackish to dark blue. Deep Sea Blue could also be an interesting option - its a nice vibrant colour even on overcast days.
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      08-17-2010, 04:59 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmernic View Post
Hi krell, you might find this useful with respect to their comment on the ride on 18" RFTs with VDC:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carrevi...w_520d_se.html

I have read somewhere on the net that the self-leveling suspension on the F11 rides better than the F10. Unfortunately, I have not been able to find the link.

The consensus, at least for the UK press reports, is that the 18" RFT shod F10s ride better with the VDC.

Based on my limited time with the 18" RFTs on the standard suspension, the standard suspension appears to be too soft, with a tendency to crash and thump over road irregularities. Plus, there is a greater degree of body roll.
I'm waiting to drive the F11's when they arrive, as I'll be hoping for the ideal ride with the air suspension on the rear. Having owned a 540i E39 touring, the rear air suspension is better suited for the load carrier, IMO.

Also still not sure about wheel sizes. Was disappointed with the 18" on an F10 530d. I'm sure the RFT 'negatives' still come through and blight the ride and steering. To my surprise I found 19" were better on all counts, better poise and precision, even on the normal steering setting, on a 535i. The tyres were different brands on the test cars, whether that makes a difference, who knows at this stage of the F10 experience curve.

At present, still minded that the 18" wheel set will need non run-flats to work properly on broken roads and cooler temperatures. I'd have ordered an F11 by now, if I was at all confident on what ride and drive I'd be getting with any particular spec', but as the combinations are so many, and the feedback so mixed, I'm not going there until I really know what I'm doing. The experience of my present 3-series and messed ride qualities, burned me badly until I sorted it myself, I don't forgive BMW for offereing such a mixed bag of characteristics, so won't venture into unknown F11 territory.

Even the latest AutoExpress comments concern me "and to stay on course on motorways, you find yourself making minor adjustments" Is this really what we expect from a 5-series?

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      08-18-2010, 06:08 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsyed View Post
but the link confirms (what i said) that throttle and steering response changes only if you have sport automatic and/or active steering.
No, you get changes in steering and throttle response also if you have VDC with a manual gearbox and no active steering.
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      08-18-2010, 07:02 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gorban View Post
No, you get changes in steering and throttle response also if you have VDC with a manual gearbox and no active steering.
That is my understanding as well, (from BMW data, descriptions and user manual), DDC (Drive Dynamic Control) when fitted, whatever the combination of the other options, (2TB, 223, 2VH, 2VA, etc) allows steering and throttle tuning.

As an example, if you opt for VDC (223) only, in a manual car you get DDC and can configure/fine tune throttle and steering in i-Drive. Along with the obvious toggle switching.

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      08-18-2010, 08:23 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
That is my understanding as well, (from BMW data, descriptions and user manual), DDC (Drive Dynamic Control) when fitted, whatever the combination of the other options, (2TB, 223, 2VH, 2VA, etc) allows steering and throttle tuning.

As an example, if you opt for VDC (223) only, in a manual car you get DDC and can configure/fine tune throttle and steering in i-Drive. Along with the obvious toggle switching.

HighlandPete
My understanding is that the DDC will only adjust the chassis or drivetrain only (ie not steering) if the F10 has VDC or adaptive drive without the 8 speed sport auto transmission. DDC with the 8 speed sport auto transmission will then affect the steering.

-speed sports automatic
transmission Steptronic, with
sports mode for a particularly sporty
drive and shift paddles on the sports
leather steering wheel.
-Dynamic Driving Control allows
the driver to select Normal or Sports
mode at the push of a button. Comfort
Mode in conjunction with Adaptive
Drive or Dynamic Damping Control

http://f10.5post.com/goodiesforyou/f10-catalog.pdf pg 17/31

On a different note, the F10 with DDC but without VDC or adaptive drive will not affect the chassis even though the screen shows the chassis as it has the software but not the hardware. The DDC alone does not mean that the chassis or steering can be adjusted, does it?

The manual appears to state that the DDC button alone will adjust the chassis and suspension and our understanding is that this is not the case unless it has adaptive drive or VDC http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Content/Owner/dgh.aspx manual for the 535i at pg 99. The manual's reference may be to DDC with adaptive drive/VDC as this is mentioned in the earlier portion of the manual at pg97 referring to pg 99.

Last edited by bm323; 08-18-2010 at 08:36 AM..
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      08-18-2010, 10:49 AM   #34
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[QUOTE=krell;7834532]Hi,

.... The only dissapoining aspect of the car was that the ride was far from perfect. The suspension thudded over potholes and did not deal with "minor" road imperfections very well. However, it was fine on the smoother motorway roads. .......QUOTE]

The F10 does exceptionally well over potholes. Is there any car that doesn't make a worse noise over a pothole than over a smaller bump? It handles very smooth on all surfaces for it's size. This car is even smoother than my Camry, and both cars are engineering marvels.
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      08-18-2010, 12:31 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
My understanding is that the DDC will only adjust the chassis or drivetrain only (ie not steering) if the F10 has VDC or adaptive drive without the 8 speed sport auto transmission. DDC with the 8 speed sport auto transmission will then affect the steering.

On a different note, the F10 with DDC but without VDC or adaptive drive will not affect the chassis even though the screen shows the chassis as it has the software but not the hardware. The DDC alone does not mean that the chassis or steering can be adjusted, does it?

The manual appears to state that the DDC button alone will adjust the chassis and suspension and our understanding is that this is not the case unless it has adaptive drive or VDC
My understanding... First point if you have DDC (even with a manual transmission) then you can adjust steering and throttle without requiring 2TB. VDC being an option which gives this feature, plus the adjustment and comfort setting on the suspension.

Second point, DDC does allow throttle and steering, whatever option with it. See BMW description of DDC.

Third point, no suspension adjustment without at least VDC. So 2TB alone, gives us DDC, but only allows steering, throttle and transmission configurations.





If we read the definition of DDC carefully, (from both pages of the brochure) it supports all the other descriptions by BMW.

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      08-18-2010, 01:15 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
My understanding... First point if you have DDC (even with a manual transmission) then you can adjust steering and throttle without requiring 2TB. VDC being an option which gives this feature, plus the adjustment and comfort setting on the suspension.

Second point, DDC does allow throttle and steering, whatever option with it. See BMW description of DDC.

Third point, no suspension adjustment without at least VDC. So 2TB alone, gives us DDC, but only allows steering, throttle and transmission configurations.

If we read the definition of DDC carefully, (from both pages of the brochure) it supports all the other descriptions by BMW.

HighlandPete
hmmm, if this is the case, is there any difference when a F10 which has the DDC with or without the 8 speed sport transmission, as regards steering or throttle/accelerator response?

and where is the following taken from? just curious
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      08-18-2010, 02:32 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
hmmm, if this is the case, is there any difference when a F10 which has the DDC with or without the 8 speed sport transmission, as regards steering or throttle/accelerator response?

and where is the following taken from? just curious
Now that is an interesting question? In addition to the throttle and steering configurations I'd imagine (from the user manual description) the transmission part can be configured in i-Drive to activate 'sport mode' for the sport setting on the toggle switch, but would only be equal to the stick being put in sport. I'm of the opinion only the sport box option will have the shorter shift times.

Whether the steering and throttle settings are identical to the 2TB software configurations, that is a harder call, but why not, if the hardware is also the same? We've got to remember that wheel sizes have a lot to do with how the steering feel is fed back to the driver, as well as the configured software settings.

The posted dynamic systems description is from page 36 of the full UK F10 brochure. Option details from page 52.

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