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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 BIMMERPOST Universal Forums Professional Motorsport Racing Discussion (IMSA, DTM, Formula 1, Grand-AM, Le Mans, IRL, WRC, etc..) It's actually happening: McLaren Audi + Red Bull Porsche
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      03-31-2022, 09:41 AM   #1
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It's actually happening: McLaren Audi + Red Bull Porsche

https://financialpost.com/pmn/busine...4878513bf/amp/

I can't believe it... this has been rumored for so long now. So excited for this.

Red Bull Porsche is going to be a juggernaut. If McLaren gets their aero competitive again then both teams will be INSANE.

Mercedes power units to exit F1 in T minus....
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      03-31-2022, 09:50 AM   #2
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https://www.businessinsider.de/wirts...im-rennzirkus/

Audi and Porsche were supposed to partner on power units but Porsche pulled out as they developed a closer relationship with Red Bull. Audi feels betrayed by Porsche.

Speculation but Audi v. Porsche rivalry in F1 would be incredible.

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Volkswagen will probably enter Formula 1 with two teams. From 2026, Audi and Porsche are expected to win in the premier class with their own engines. Insiders tell us that the group executive board and group supervisory board are expected to give the green light for the billion-euro investment in April.

Actually, Audi and Porsche wanted to save costs with a jointly developed drive train. But Porsche boss Oliver Blume is planning an exclusive partnership with Red Bull – without Audi.

Audi boss Markus Duesmann reacted emotionally to going it alone. According to participants, in meetings he complained that he had been betrayed. But now he seems to have found his way into the premier class.

The Volkswagen Group wants to enter Formula 1 with two teams. According to reports, the supervisory board is to decide on the release of the investment for "Project Speed" as early as next week. If the Group Board of Management has its way, Audi and Porsche will be competing for victory in the premier class from 2026.

Internally, the race for pole position has long since begun. The initially planned partnership between the two VW subsidiary brands has given way to a rivalry that has been heating up spirits for weeks. "The relationship between Audi boss Markus Duesmann and Porsche boss Oliver Blume is tense," says the supervisory board.

As several participants explained in discussions with Business Insider, Duesmann accused Porsche boss Blume at a meeting of the Audi control committee a few weeks ago of having betrayed him. Originally, Audi and Porsche wanted to shake up the premier class with a jointly developed powertrain. "On the home straight, Blume overtook Duesmann," says a person familiar with the process. So Porsche suddenly presented an exclusive partnership with Red Bull and sent the message: Sorry Audi, we're going to do it alone now!

Works council silenced? While MAN was cutting thousands of jobs, the truck manufacturer offered to finance his business studies in Hungary for a worker leader "Duesmann seemed visibly touched," says a top manager. After all, the Audi boss is not only the main driver behind Volkswagen's entry into Formula 1, but also an absolute motorsport specialist. From 2005 to 2009, Duesmann led the development of Formula 1 engines, first at Mercedes and then at BMW. At the beginning of the year, however, he feared that Volkswagen would enter the premier class without him.

While Porsche was able to present specific figures on the planned Red Bull deal to the group board of directors in February, group finance director Arno Antlitz tormented Audi boss Duesmann with unpleasant questions about the business case. "Against this background, Duesmann reacted very emotionally, also attacked Blume in board meetings and criticized his going it alone," an insider tells us. He is also said to have mocked the painted beverage cans that Porsche then uses to travel.

In fact, the Austrian beverage manufacturer has been a preferred partner of Volkswagen for many years. A confidential presentation from January 2008 already said: “Formula 1 is the pinnacle of motorsport. Audi and Porsche plan to start developing a powertrain in 2008; racing is planned from 2011 with top positions from 2012. The Red Bull team is the racing team. The goal is a winning overall vehicle.”

For what was then “Project X1”, Audi and Porsche were supposed to set up a “Formula 1 Engineering GmbH” in which Audi had a 60 percent stake and Porsche 40 percent. "The GmbH should be located in Ingolstadt in the area of ​​Audi engine development," says the internal paper. None of this was implemented at the time because the then VW supervisory board chairman Ferdinand Piech allegedly did not trust the Formula 1 boss Bernie Ecclestone.

Ecclestone is now history and Formula 1 is facing an eco-revolution. The regulations are to be fundamentally changed from 2026. In addition to a much higher proportion of electricity in the hybrid system, a 1.6-liter V6 engine will then be fueled with synthetic fuel or biofuel. The new regulations would fit perfectly into the drive strategy of Porsche and Audi. The new set of rules, on which representatives from Audi and Porsche also contributed, should be officially adopted by the summer at the latest. Only then, everyone emphasizes, is entry into Formula 1 a clean affair.

While Porsche wants to retain a "marketing monster" in Red Bull and invest a mid three-digit million amount over the next five years, Audi is banking on the traditional British racing team McLaren and is even aiming to take over the brand. According to corporate circles, a declaration of intent to purchase is on the way. It should go to an amount beyond 500 million. Details are secret. Neither an Audi spokesman nor a Porsche spokesman wanted to comment on the whole Formula 1 process.

According to information from Business Insider, the supervisory boards of Audi and Porsche have already approved the respective plans. A first hurdle has thus been cleared. However, the vote of the Group Executive Board in the coming week is considered decisive. Most recently, however, the top management signaled that they wanted to enable both brands to enter the market. In the meantime, Audi has also been able to demonstrate that the entry would pay off financially, according to company circles. "Some questions are still open," says an insider. "But we are very optimistic." Finally, the Group's supervisory board has to approve the plan for a double Formula 1 entry in April.

This is what VW promised when it entered Formula 1 around ten years ago This is what VW promised when it entered Formula 1 around ten years ago Both VW brands expect a great advertising effect from the commitment. The growth and viewership of Formula 1 is extraordinary. The fact that interest in the premier class is now also noticeably increasing in North America should be particularly valuable for the German manufacturers. In addition, Audi and Porsche promise to be able to transfer technical innovations from Formula 1 development to series production. "Especially for Audi, this could be an opportunity to revive the old slogan 'Vorsprung durch Technik'," says a group manager.

But the decisive factor will be whether the car is successful. Because whether Red Bull Porsche or McLaren Audi - in the end only one can be at the top.
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      03-31-2022, 09:53 AM   #3
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      03-31-2022, 10:06 AM   #4
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I think Audi is trying to outright buy McLaren although the numbers don't make sense ($500M+). To completely takeover McLaren will have to cost billions. It seems like it will end up as Audi being majority owner. It paid off for Lamborghini. Although it's always weird when I'm doing maintenance on my R8 and half the components are stamped LAMBORGHINI.
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      03-31-2022, 10:20 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYG View Post
https://financialpost.com/pmn/busine...4878513bf/amp/

I can't believe it... this has been rumored for so long now. So excited for this.

Red Bull Porsche is going to be a juggernaut. If McLaren gets their aero competitive again then both teams will be INSANE.

Mercedes power units to exit F1 in T minus....
WOW, this life long Ferrari fan will jump ship if Porsche enters the sport. Porsche has always been my favorite manufacturer and I've owned a few. Ferrari is a bit out of my price range.
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      03-31-2022, 10:29 AM   #6
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That is bizarre since they are a part of the same company, VAG of course (anyone else as juvenile as me that laughs at that still)? But there also have been rumors forever that Porsche is trying to separate from them.

Agreed though, would be very cool for F1 in general.
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      03-31-2022, 10:32 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
That is bizarre since they are a part of the same company, VAG of course (anyone else as juvenile as me that laughs at that still)? But there are also rumors forever that Porsche is trying to separate from them.

Agreed though, would be very cool for F1 in general.
Definitely, I was going to make a joke that I think the Germans misunderstood what everyone meant more female participation in motorsports. "Ja, ve vill add ze VAG to ze formula 1 ja?"
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      03-31-2022, 10:34 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Killed by Death View Post
WOW, this life long Ferrari fan will jump ship if Porsche enters the sport. Porsche has always been my favorite manufacturer and I've owned a few. Ferrari is a bit out of my price range.
I will struggle with this as well but it helps knowing that Max will be in a Red Bull Porsche and I'll always be a fan of his.

I can't jump ship from McLaren so knowing that Audi will be there makes me feel better about it - they're just as dangerous against Porsche in LMP and other racing. Will always respect Red Bull and Ferrari though.
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      03-31-2022, 11:35 AM   #9
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Those were the days...
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      03-31-2022, 11:37 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYG View Post
I think Audi is trying to outright buy McLaren although the numbers don't make sense ($500M+). To completely takeover McLaren will have to cost billions. It seems like it will end up as Audi being majority owner. It paid off for Lamborghini. Although it's always weird when I'm doing maintenance on my R8 and half the components are stamped LAMBORGHINI.
I'll venmo you $10 if it happens.
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      03-31-2022, 11:40 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by FrankMstein View Post
I'll venmo you $10 if it happens.
How about a set of track tires??
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      03-31-2022, 11:50 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by NYG View Post
How about a set of track tires??
Sure...for your Scalextric car!
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      03-31-2022, 12:18 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by FrankMstein View Post
Sure...for your Scalextric car!
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      04-01-2022, 02:45 PM   #14
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Audi / VW / Skoda etc don’t get on! They use very different design philosophy’s and often don’t even want to share engines. Sometimes it’s forced on them.

Porsche are seen as very separate to the rest of the group and far less integrated as a result. Bentley are far close for example and dip into the parts bin more than Porsche do.
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      04-04-2022, 10:40 AM   #15
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https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/audi-rai...oche-1.1747059

Audi increases offer by %30 to acquire McLaren.

Looks like Audi wants majority ownership of the brand. This will probably be a good thing for McLaren as they are not doing as well as they should be. Audi saved Lamborghini from doom and I see this as a victory for such a legendary name.
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      04-04-2022, 02:44 PM   #16
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Its strange that VW now pretty much has monopoly on supercars: porsche, lambo, audi r8, bugatti, rimac and now mclaren.

it'll be interesting to see how ferrari competes. seems like they are spending money developing cruisers like the roma, california, portofino, and now purosangue over the last few years. I'm not sure how well the 296gtb with its hybrid v6 will sell... but the ferrari brand image is VERY powerful.
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      04-04-2022, 02:50 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
Its strange that VW now pretty much has monopoly on supercars: porsche, lambo, audi r8, bugatti, rimac and now mclaren.

it'll be interesting to see how ferrari competes. seems like they are spending money developing cruisers like the roma, california, portofino, and now purosangue over the last few years. I'm not sure how well the 296gtb with its hybrid v6 will sell... but the ferrari brand image is VERY powerful.


Check out this video. Gave me a different perspective to the Roma - which is not a car that would satisfy my Ferrari cravings. Very respectable though.
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      04-05-2022, 03:01 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
Its strange that VW now pretty much has monopoly on supercars: porsche, lambo, audi r8, bugatti, rimac and now mclaren.

it'll be interesting to see how ferrari competes. seems like they are spending money developing cruisers like the roma, california, portofino, and now purosangue over the last few years. I'm not sure how well the 296gtb with its hybrid v6 will sell... but the ferrari brand image is VERY powerful.
Guessing the Ferrari marketing sees the ageing rich followers want something more easy to live with, more ride comfort with less of the aggressive looks and sharper handling.
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      04-05-2022, 07:11 AM   #19
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Guessing the Ferrari marketing sees the ageing rich followers want something more easy to live with, more ride comfort with less of the aggressive looks and sharper handling.
They've had that demographic in mind for as long as I can remember. I bought an F355 Spider new in 1997 and had considered the 550 Maranello but at that time felt it was not the go-cart I was looking for. Still, some incredibly beautiful (looking and sounding) cars in that grand touring class.

Oddly, that F355 is one car that, after 10 years of ownership, I really don't miss as much as the C4S I had next.
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      04-05-2022, 09:21 AM   #20
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They've had that demographic in mind for as long as I can remember. I bought an F355 Spider new in 1997 and had considered the 550 Maranello but at that time felt it was not the go-cart I was looking for. Still, some incredibly beautiful (looking and sounding) cars in that grand touring class.

Oddly, that F355 is one car that, after 10 years of ownership, I really don't miss as much as the C4S I had next.
Was the 355 problematic?

I'd LOVE a 430 Scuderia - those things sounds absolutely insane.
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      04-05-2022, 09:59 AM   #21
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https://f1-insider.com/formel-1-vw-a...instieg-42710/

Quote:
Audi and Porsche into Formula 1? Decision near

Is it almost time? VW Group's supervisory board is expected to discuss and decide on a double Formula 1 entry this week

F1 Insider | 05 April 2022 , 2:13 pm

Is it almost time? VW Group's supervisory board is expected to discuss and decide on a double Formula One entry this week

The crucial supervisory board meeting is getting closer. According to the industry newspaper "Automobilwoche", the VW Group's supervisory board is to discuss its future Formula 1 involvement on 7 April - and, at best, decide on it.

Rumours about the German flagship company's entry into the premier class of motorsport have persisted for months. The target is 2026, when new engine regulations come into force. The electric share of the hybrid system will then be increased to half, and the combustion engine will be fuelled exclusively by sustainable petrol. In addition, expensive and complicated components such as the MGuH (generates electricity from the exhaust jet) will be banned.

The new regulations are the bait - the fish just have to bite.

According to Automobilwoche, this should only be a formality. According to the report, Audi wants to acquire a stake in McLaren for 650 million euros. But it's not just about Formula 1, it's also about the sports car manufacturer. F1-Insider.com can also confirm that intensive negotiations have taken place in recent months - even at the operational level.

Fittingly: Formula 1 boss Stefano Domenicali, formerly head of VW subsidiary Lamborghini and employed by Audi, has recently been beating the expectation drum again and again, saying when asked about VW, among other things: "Wait and see, soon you'll know more."

F1 Insider reported back in October 2021 that McLaren is the object of Audi's desire ahead of Williams. McLaren managing director Zak Brown also admits: "They have spoken to a number of people and, as you can imagine, we have had discussions as well. In the short and medium term we are happy with our partner Mercedes. We are waiting to see what happens. We have a contract until the end of 2025 and we will decide calmly how to go on from 2026."

But recently the Russian war of aggression in Ukraine has repeatedly postponed the Volkswagen decision. Even now there are critical voices within Audi: is it possible to plan an investment worth hundreds of millions in the midst of the crisis? The supervisory board is now likely to ask itself the same question.

Especially as it's not just Audi that's involved. Porsche, the group's sister company, also wants to enter the premier class in parallel with the Ingolstadt-based company with its own engine, albeit without buying a team. The Stuttgart company's plans are aimed at a cooperation with Red Bull Racing and its sister team AlphaTauri.

Now, at least as far as Audi's ambitious and elaborate plans are concerned, it is only up to the supervisory board.

By: Bianca Garloff and Ralf Bach
Oh lawd.... I'm more excited for this announcement than Melbourne.

Confirmed that Audi is looking to take majority ownership of McLaren everything - not just F1.
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      04-05-2022, 10:04 AM   #22
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Red Bull & Alpha Tauri to be powered by Porsche Power Units 2026.
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