[Surly73]

Originally Posted by Snakle535i

Here in Europe we only get the 535i in RWD, The Xdrive is not full time 4wd like an Audi Quattro. The front drive shafts are driven by a seperate electronic transfer box, Pity BMW didn't give a button or option on Idrive to disable when not required. on the newer Gseries the Xdrive is mechanical.

As someone else pointed out - not correct.

It is absolutely mechanical (with electronic control of clutch lock up and how much power goes to the front). What it is NOT is a center differential with an option to lock, like I've seen on Quattros of old.

[anthonygan]

Originally Posted by labenzm5

Can you describe (not is crazy detail) the difference? They say you get more power to the rear wheels and handling can be better..

What do you think?

Can you break the tires from a roll of you mash on it?

Handling is definitely better!! The front end is so lose now, but in a good way!!! I haven’t been able to break the tires on a roll, but I have good Michelin as3 + tires! So they are grippy!

[hlothery]

Appreciate the different perspective. Don't know much about F10's. My former F83 was a beast, wild and untamed.....wish I had had Xdrive with it. My new G30 M550i is awesome, and I do not miss wheelspin in any way. Interesting how we can have different perspectives about great cars and their performance characteristics. Love my Xdrive.

[BrandBMW]

Originally Posted by Surly73

Maybe, maybe not. I'm curious enough to spend a little $ on some software to find out.

XDrive may feel "artificial" not because power is going to the front wheels, but perhaps instead because of the suspension geometry required to minimize torque steer, or suspension geometry required to accommodate the extra X-Drive hardware, or because of the extra weight in the nose, or because the hydraulic steering rack used in the X-Drive variant outright sucks (even though in the early days of the F10 the hydraulic rack was the desirable one), or....who knows...

X-Delete won't fix any of those kinds of issues, and the steering may still feel weird. Like I said, I'd be willing to give it a try, but XDelete doesn't work with my TC.

I am interested, however, in comments like yours that the RWD F10 doesn't feel like crap. Or at least the LCI doesn't.

The suspension geometry is almost identical between xDrive and RWD versions. xDrive has beefier components to handle the extra force of the front wheels driving and may be slightly adjusted (i.e control arm/balljoint) to fit the front axles. Torque steer is managed by the axles and this is why the right side has 2 pieces, the outer shaft is the same length as the left side. Unequal shaft lengths, due to the twisting with radial force, is what causes torque steer. Remove the front-drive and for all intended purposes, it should feel like a RWD vehicle, albeit with hydraulic steering in the F10.

[Surly73]

Originally Posted by hlothery

Appreciate the different perspective. Don't know much about F10's. My former F83 was a beast, wild and untamed.....wish I had had Xdrive with it. My new G30 M550i is awesome, and I do not miss wheelspin in any way. Interesting how we can have different perspectives about great cars and their performance characteristics. Love my Xdrive.

For the record, I'm not looking for wheel spin. I may be looking for a return to some drift angle, the way RWD is partially steered by throttle, the way the steering feels unencumbered by applying power etc...etc... Not interested at all in burnouts and the like.

I don't expect to get my E39 (I had the I6 with rack-and-pinion and the superior front end) or E90 steering feel back, but it might be nice to get part way there.

[Surly73]

Originally Posted by BrandBMW

The suspension geometry is almost identical between xDrive and RWD versions. xDrive has beefier components to handle the extra force of the front wheels driving and may be slightly adjusted (i.e control arm/balljoint) to fit the front axles. Torque steer is managed by the axles and this is why the right side has 2 pieces, the outer shaft is the same length as the left side. Unequal shaft lengths, due to the twisting with radial force, is what causes torque steer. Remove the front-drive and for all intended purposes, it should feel like a RWD vehicle, albeit with hydraulic steering in the F10.

Good to note. It wouldn't take much adjustment to dramatically change the feel, but nice to know.

Lilke I mentioned - in my early F10 days, people lusted after the X-Drive hydraulic setup. Not sure everyone feels the same now. There's no reason electric steering can't be good, there just wasn't a lot of love out there for F10 and F30 era electric steering.

[Kc27]

Originally Posted by Fynn

not available for my 2011 f10 550

Wym not available ?

[christoph@xHP]

Originally Posted by Kc27

Wym not available ?

Around the middle of December 2011, the F10/F11 got a new xDrive controller unit, which made xDelete possible on these cars. That is why we do not support cars, which are built before that date. We are still working on a new method, to make F10/F11 available which are older than that, but as we do have to start from scratch, I can not say how long it will takes us, or if we will be a able to support them at all.

[AmooManiak]

Have any 550i guys tried this? Making more power sounds nice. Also, having ability to make it mostly RWD biased with some FWD help during launch makes this very appealing. Something like a 85/15 split sounds like a good option.

Only concern would be reliability. Would swiching to a more RWD setup have any effect? In other words, is the RWD part of the X-drive drivetrain built as tough as the RWD only drivetrain, or is the RWD portion "weaker" because BMW assumes that FWD will take some of the workload on X-drive cars.

[christoph@xHP]

Originally Posted by AmooManiak

Something like a 85/15 split sounds like a good option.

We do not support these features yet fort he F10/F11, but The xDrive Sport and custom for that matter, are calibrated to only transfer e certain amount on torque to the front axle (for example 100NM). If your engine does not deliver 100NM the front rear split is different, then when the engine delivers 600NM. So it is not a constant distribution between front and back (like 90:10 Rear:front), but a relative.

Originally Posted by AmooManiak

Only concern would be reliability. Would swiching to a more RWD setup have any effect? In other words, is the RWD part of the X-drive drivetrain built as tough as the RWD only drivetrain, or is the RWD portion "weaker" because BMW assumes that FWD will take some of the workload on X-drive cars.

The drivetrain parts are the exact same as in the RWD models even tough, for example, the rear differential for example does have a differing part number between the xDrive and non xDrive equivalents.
This is due to different final drive ratios and when you look the part numbers up and where they were put in, you find that they were also used in the RWD models.
At around 110 mph from factory BMW opens the xDrive clutch completely to, making the car RWD from factory.

[AmooManiak]

Originally Posted by christoph@xHP

We do not support these features yet fort he F10/F11, but The xDrive Sport and custom for that matter, are calibrated to only transfer e certain amount on torque to the front axle (for example 100NM). If your engine does not deliver 100NM the front rear split is different, then when the engine delivers 600NM. So it is not a constant distribution between front and back (like 90:10 Rear:front), but a relative.

Thanks. Do you just not support "Custom", or Sport as well?

As I live in Chicago where we see snow, I wouldn't want purely a RWD car, which I've had a few of in the past. I'd want a more RWD biased car that still has a kick of AWD when needed. From what I've read, I would want the "Sport" option. Is this yet available for the F10?

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by christoph@xHP

At around 110 mph from factory BMW opens the xDrive clutch completely to, making the car RWD from factory.

I'm curious why would they do this?

Not saying your information is incorrect or that most of xDrive owners in North America will take their vehicles to these speeds regularly, but it's interesting they'd design it this way.


Also, when you do Xdelete, you're still left with heavier vehicle that has a suspension that sits 10mm higher (straight from the factory - someone correct me if I'm wrong on this?).
I'm curious if you're somehow addressing these two issues to make it closer to what RWD is like straight from the factory.

[AmooManiak]

Originally Posted by AmooManiak

Thanks. Do you just not support "Custom", or Sport as well?

I guess that's no for Sport on the F10.

To me being limited to switching to pure RWD or pure X-Drive is not worth it, until we have the option to have something like sport where we can still preserve some of the X-drive but have a more RWD biased vehicle.

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by AmooManiak

I guess that's no for Sport on the F10.

To me being limited to switching to pure RWD or pure X-Drive is not worth it, until we have the option to have something like sport where we can still preserve some of the X-drive but have a more RWD biased vehicle.

Sounds like it's time to budget for new M5.

[christoph@xHP]

Originally Posted by AmooManiak

Thanks. Do you just not support "Custom", or Sport as well?

As I live in Chicago where we see snow, I wouldn't want purely a RWD car, which I've had a few of in the past. I'd want a more RWD biased car that still has a kick of AWD when needed. From what I've read, I would want the "Sport" option. Is this yet available for the F10?

We do NOT support either custom/snow or sport. The problem is not that we cannot, because we have it running on our test mule, but the transfer cases in the F-series cars are much weaker than in E-series cars and they die already in stock form very fast.
This is why BMW is replacing them without much resistance, at no or very little cost for the owners.

We are still trying to find a calibration were they can keep up, but this also means they could possibly never get support for anything else then On or Off, if we do not find a satisfying solution.

Originally Posted by Bbb34

I'm curious why would they do this?

Not saying your information is incorrect or that most of xDrive owners in North America will take their vehicles to these speeds regularly, but it's interesting they'd design it this way.

Because the xDrive units in the US cars are the same ones used in german cars. They are designed to be able to go this speeds or even faster for hours. At this speeds you do not need xDrive as you do not have traction problems and it does not aid in stability to have AWD.
Also it puts unnecessary stress on the clutch pack , so they just open them. You can believe me or not, I see it here in the dataset.

Originally Posted by Bbb34

Also, when you do Xdelete, you're still left with heavier vehicle that has a suspension that sits 10mm higher (straight from the factory - someone correct me if I'm wrong on this?).
I'm curious if you're somehow addressing these two issues to make it closer to what RWD is like straight from the factory.

We do open the clutch inside the the transfer case, that sends torque to the front, completely. Nothing more, nothing less.

Originally Posted by AmooManiak

I guess that's no for Sport on the F10.

To me being limited to switching to pure RWD or pure X-Drive is not worth it, until we have the option to have something like sport where we can still preserve some of the X-drive but have a more RWD biased vehicle.

As mentioned before, it may never come.
You can switch back and forth as often as you like should you have some snowy days as it takes about 4 minutes.
As we are not messing with the DSC at all, all the safety nets are still there.

[Surly73]

Originally Posted by AmooManiak

I guess that's no for Sport on the F10.

To me being limited to switching to pure RWD or pure X-Drive is not worth it, until we have the option to have something like sport where we can still preserve some of the X-drive but have a more RWD biased vehicle.

Well that all depends....

From my perspective - I would like to see a mode where X-Drive was normal until DTC mode or DSC OFF mode was set, then X-Drive was also off. I don't believe X-Delete supports this kind of setting today, but maybe it could. If that were available I would probably set that in the summer, and X-Drive full factory in the winter. When I want to get a little punchy, set DTC mode and off you go.

X-Delete isn't free, but it isn't super expensive either. My F10 is before the current MY2012 cutoff so I cannot use it (yet). I don't expect that it will undo all of the negatives of an X-Drive car, but it will get you part way there.

[AmooManiak]

Got it, so it's not an F10 issue, but generally F series? That's very strange of BMW to do. Give more power (compared to E60), but weaken the components?

[Rob09msport]

I think I will buy this as I just had my transfer case replaced and would like to run this in summer. My question is what does this do diff than coding off xdrive either vo or manually. I know that without proper vo change it does cause traction control error

[christoph@xHP]

Originally Posted by Rob09msport

I think I will buy this as I just had my transfer case replaced and would like to run this in summer. My question is what does this do diff than coding off xdrive either vo or manually. I know that without proper vo change it does cause traction control error

We flash a custom dataset, so the VTG continues to communicate with the rest of the car, without throwing error codes. Because of the integrated check sum correction, the flash is invisible to BMW diagnostic tools, so you can drive to a service at your dealer. But flashing back and forth does not take very long with the black MHD adapter for example, so you can also flash to stock, if you feel the need for it.

[AmooManiak]

Please keep us posted if you ever figure out a sportier xdrive version for the F10. Definitely interested, but not looking for RWD only due to traction issues. All my previous BMWs were RWD.

[Tiger Joe]

I'm curious, has anyone actually done the xdelete than can report any mpg gains? I'd love to run in RWD only but have AWD available for the few times I need it a year.

[Lingling]

Originally Posted by Tiger Joe

I'm curious, has anyone actually done the xdelete than can report any mpg gains? I'd love to run in RWD only but have AWD available for the few times I need it a year.

Might be getting it soon I'll let you know. Just waiting for the cables to arrive