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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 F10 Technical Topics Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications Helix Overdrive updates
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      12-12-2019, 07:20 PM   #1
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Helix Overdrive updates

I got conversations going with N54 guys about their experiences so far with the HOD for those of us running the Continental hpfp.

A lot of interesting outcomes so far and glad I didn't Guinea pig it. However it looks like we're making progress and it should be ready for more mass usage soon.

Anyone running the Helix HPFP Overdrive https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1666144
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      12-12-2019, 07:55 PM   #2
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Wow that's messed up though... So now you not only have to get the overdrive unit but buy a bracket plus billet casing... Lol I think they should include these two items with the product as it seems without those two items it is incomplete. You can argue about that but the fact remains.... If you selling me a $850 product that will break my car than it is not good.
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      12-12-2019, 08:12 PM   #3
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Spool is local to the shop I work at and I've installed several of these in client and shop employees cars as early adopters... nothing breaking news here. Its well and tested, just install the billet vacuum pump cover at the same time and you're good to go.

The covers are breaking with the 3x units due to the centrifugal force of the planetary gear set that forms the fundamental basis of the Helix units. We broke 2 vacuum pumps with the 4x units, but not with the 3x.
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      12-12-2019, 10:29 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stück View Post
Spool is local to the shop I work at and I've installed several of these in client and shop employees cars as early adopters... nothing breaking news here. Its well and tested, just install the billet vacuum pump cover at the same time and you're good to go.

The covers are breaking with the 3x units due to the centrifugal force of the planetary gear set that forms the fundamental basis of the Helix units. We broke 2 vacuum pumps with the 4x units, but not with the 3x.
Interesting what do you know about that loud metal clanking sound when it's cold? Appreciate the updates brother want this just don't want to deal with the early phase issues.
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      12-13-2019, 12:02 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stück View Post
Spool is local to the shop I work at and I've installed several of these in client and shop employees cars as early adopters... nothing breaking news here. Its well and tested, just install the billet vacuum pump cover at the same time and you're good to go.

The covers are breaking with the 3x units due to the centrifugal force of the planetary gear set that forms the fundamental basis of the Helix units. We broke 2 vacuum pumps with the 4x units, but not with the 3x.
What is 3x or 4x unit? I only find one unit... Also, if the HOD unit is causing something to break than that part should be included with $850 price tag.

The fact remains... overdrive unit by it self break shit in a car. If you paying that much money than it should be sold complete product. It's like saying you can buy this expensive product but can't use it without also buying another 50 dollar product. Get a laptop but battery not included lawl... Don't unplug the power cable or you will lose your data.
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      12-13-2019, 12:53 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stück View Post
Spool is local to the shop I work at and I've installed several of these in client and shop employees cars as early adopters... nothing breaking news here. Its well and tested, just install the billet vacuum pump cover at the same time and you're good to go.

The covers are breaking with the 3x units due to the centrifugal force of the planetary gear set that forms the fundamental basis of the Helix units. We broke 2 vacuum pumps with the 4x units, but not with the 3x.
No lol
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      12-13-2019, 12:59 PM   #7
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This is a pay to play world especially when you are talking about modifying your car. Go figure that if you are pushing your fuel pump to 3x or 4x output it will break something else, you will always be chasing the weakest link or the next bottleneck - that's part of the fun! I'm not saying this isn't cool or disagreeing that a product released should be well tested but it's not like BMW is putting these things out. What I am saying is that in general when you push stuff, things break. If that bothers you then maybe you shouldn't modify your car!
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      12-13-2019, 02:04 PM   #8
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I would understand if something else breaks if you pushing more power out of the car, but when you build a product to work with another part of the car than you as a manufacturer need throughly test and make sure that it would not cause any issues. To me this looks like not enough testing was done. If Helix OD is dependent on vacumm pump than it was Spool's responsibility to make sure that part is not stressed out during their testing. And if they saw that it would stressed out than it should be mentioned and the billet casing should be included with the OD unit.
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      12-13-2019, 03:55 PM   #9
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      12-13-2019, 04:39 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ziekxq View Post
I would understand if something else breaks if you pushing more power out of the car, but when you build a product to work with another part of the car than you as a manufacturer need throughly test and make sure that it would not cause any issues. To me this looks like not enough testing was done. If Helix OD is dependent on vacumm pump than it was Spool's responsibility to make sure that part is not stressed out during their testing. And if they saw that it would stressed out than it should be mentioned and the billet casing should be included with the OD unit.
So since Pure Turbos increase the boost of the car, should they be responsible for cracked OEM charge pipes, or responsible for providing an upgraded charge pipe free of charge?

Of course not, so why is that applicable here? This is putting undue burden of testing on aftermarket manufacturers. They're not huge companies with deep R&D pockets, they're limited on what they can test, and likely just didn't see this kind of failure in testing because they have limited sample sizing.

Additionally, we don't actually have a proper idea of how prevalent this problem actually is. People who have had no issues with the OD pump likely don't bother saying anything.
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      12-13-2019, 05:02 PM   #11
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I got this image from DR-JEKL in the other post. He apparently has an inside tract and looks like spool is about to address that issue too. So it'll be the unit itself, upgrading the billet housing and this orbital stabilizing bracket.
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      12-13-2019, 06:41 PM   #12
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So since Pure Turbos increase the boost of the car, should they be responsible for cracked OEM charge pipes, or responsible for providing an upgraded charge pipe free of charge?

Of course not, so why is that applicable here? This is putting undue burden of testing on aftermarket manufacturers. They're not huge companies with deep R&D pockets, they're limited on what they can test, and likely just didn't see this kind of failure in testing because they have limited sample sizing.

Additionally, we don't actually have a proper idea of how prevalent this problem actually is. People who have had no issues with the OD pump likely don't bother saying anything.
First, Pure Turbo doesn't increase boost and can run on stock boost.... Your Turner/tune increase boost. You can increase boost on stock turbo and break chargepipe and it is not Pure Turbo but a known issue that stock charge pipe can't handle high boost. And Pure Turbo doesn't break any part that is directly connected to it.

Now back to point... Like I said earlier... if Helix OD is dependent on vacumm pump than the testing should have included vacumm pump and stress checked that.

Just like a strut and spring go together and test together for reliability. They don't just make sure strut is good and forget about the spring.

Also, if they don't have huge pockets for R&D than why they charging $850 dollar for such a product? I am assuming huge R&D cost is added there. Plus, you are basically saying if putting Helix OD in your car blow up your engine you would be okay with it. Why? Because, "they're limited on what they can test, and likely just didn't see this kind of failure in testing because they have limited sample sizing." Lol... good one.

Last edited by ziekxq; 12-13-2019 at 07:01 PM..
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      12-13-2019, 07:25 PM   #13
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Just like a strut and spring go together and test together for reliability. They don't just make sure strut is good and forget about the spring..
Not always. Shocks and springs can be purchased separately with nary a test together. Lowering springs are an example. I'm pretty sure companies like Eibach don't test their springs with every manufacturers stock shock or strut.
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      12-13-2019, 08:36 PM   #14
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Not always. Shocks and springs can be purchased separately with nary a test together. Lowering springs are an example. I'm pretty sure companies like Eibach don't test their springs with every manufacturers stock shock or strut.
I should have been clear I meant when it is a combo from same manufacturer so it was a bad example on my part... But I can argue that they do but we can't prove that.

Edited:
https://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog...ibach_faqs.htm

"All Eibach suspension kits are designed and tested around the vehicle's original wheel and tire combination as provided by the manufacturer. The installation of an Eibach Pro-Kit does not alter the original range of wheel travel and as a result can never be the cause of wheel or tire clearance problems."
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      12-13-2019, 09:06 PM   #15
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...

"All Eibach suspension kits are designed and tested around the vehicle's original wheel and tire combination as provided by the manufacturer. The installation of an Eibach Pro-Kit does not alter the original range of wheel travel and as a result can never be the cause of wheel or tire clearance problems."
Well, that's a crock! I had Eibah's on my last car and suspension travel was definitely less than stock (duh, the springs lowered the car ~1"). Maybe their caveat is "wheel travel", not "suspension travel." I learned my lesson with lowering springs as the springs caused premature wear to my ball joints; never again for me.
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      12-13-2019, 09:49 PM   #16
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Well, that's a crock! I had Eibah's on my last car and suspension travel was definitely less than stock (duh, the springs lowered the car ~1"). Maybe their caveat is "wheel travel", not "suspension travel." I learned my lesson with lowering springs as the springs caused premature wear to my ball joints; never again for me.
Lol... All I am saying is how you can release a product without test its effect on the car. Specially a piece that overdrive things by 3x. If people's engine were blowing because of this than there would be a different tune around here.

Plus, gives companies the reason to charge stupid money without any consequence.

Last edited by ziekxq; 12-13-2019 at 10:03 PM..
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      12-14-2019, 12:57 AM   #17
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Lol... All I am saying is how you can release a product without test its effect on the car. Specially a piece that overdrive things by 3x. If people's engine were blowing because of this than there would be a different tune around here.

Plus, gives companies the reason to charge stupid money without any consequence.
Oh, I understand. One reason I abandoned the thought of installing a power-adder is long-term reliability. I don't buy a car with the thought of how soon I will be replacing it. Heck, had replacement parts been available I would still be driving my 2006 Lincoln LS. I keep cars until repair parts aren't available or repairs cost as much as a car payment.
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      12-14-2019, 01:16 AM   #18
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Oh, I understand. One reason I abandoned the thought of installing a power-adder is long-term reliability. I don't buy a car with the thought of how soon I will be replacing it. Heck, had replacement parts been available I would still be driving my 2006 Lincoln LS. I keep cars until repair parts aren't available or repairs cost as much as a car payment.
I mean a brake job would cost more than a car payment haha lol.
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      12-14-2019, 11:56 AM   #19
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I mean a brake job would cost more than a car payment haha lol.


I left off "monthly" repair costs...
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      12-15-2019, 06:30 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ziekxq View Post
First, Pure Turbo doesn't increase boost and can run on stock boost.... Your Turner/tune increase boost. You can increase boost on stock turbo and break chargepipe and it is not Pure Turbo but a known issue that stock charge pipe can't handle high boost. And Pure Turbo doesn't break any part that is directly connected to it.

Now back to point... Like I said earlier... if Helix OD is dependent on vacumm pump than the testing should have included vacumm pump and stress checked that.

Just like a strut and spring go together and test together for reliability. They don't just make sure strut is good and forget about the spring.

Also, if they don't have huge pockets for R&D than why they charging $850 dollar for such a product? I am assuming huge R&D cost is added there. Plus, you are basically saying if putting Helix OD in your car blow up your engine you would be okay with it. Why? Because, "they're limited on what they can test, and likely just didn't see this kind of failure in testing because they have limited sample sizing." Lol... good one.
It's $850 because it's a niche product. Low volume high development cost products are, shockingly, expensive. Many companies have significantly larger research and development budgets than testing budgets. What, do you seriously expect them to go out and buy 15 BMW's so they can test their product? Get real. If everyone followed the same mindset as you, small niche product development companies never would make it past the brainstorming stage.
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      12-15-2019, 07:51 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unspec View Post
It's $850 because it's a niche product. Low volume high development cost products are, shockingly, expensive. Many companies have significantly larger research and development budgets than testing budgets. What, do you seriously expect them to go out and buy 15 BMW's so they can test their product? Get real. If everyone followed the same mindset as you, small niche product development companies never would make it past the brainstorming stage.
When you pushing something 3x and not testing it correctly shows you don't care for your customer or their cars. If you support that more to you.

So you saying it is okay for small startup pharmaceutical company to say they developed a cure for cancer and next thing you know people's kidneys start failing... It's okay because they didn't had the budget to do testing?

Here we are trusting a company with our cars on which we have spend thousands of dollars without doing reliability testing of the product or what it's affects will be? Yet, they don't have the decency to provide the replacement for something their product breaks because of their lack of testing.

Oh, hey, look... We found out our Helix OD breaks something and we got a product for this and we will charge you more for it.

I am not saying do not buy it... All I am saying is... If you as a business going to risk taking out something like this without testing than own up to mistakes and correct it... Do not charge your consumer more for it.

Last edited by ziekxq; 12-15-2019 at 08:11 PM..
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      12-16-2019, 09:41 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by ziekxq View Post
When you pushing something 3x and not testing it correctly shows you don't care for your customer or their cars. If you support that more to you.

So you saying it is okay for small startup pharmaceutical company to say they developed a cure for cancer and next thing you know people's kidneys start failing... It's okay because they didn't had the budget to do testing?

Here we are trusting a company with our cars on which we have spend thousands of dollars without doing reliability testing of the product or what it's affects will be? Yet, they don't have the decency to provide the replacement for something their product breaks because of their lack of testing.

Oh, hey, look... We found out our Helix OD breaks something and we got a product for this and we will charge you more for it.

I am not saying do not buy it... All I am saying is... If you as a business going to risk taking out something like this without testing than own up to mistakes and correct it... Do not charge your consumer more for it.
Your pharmaceutical example is a spurious analogy and you know it. There's no way you can compare the aftermarket car industry with a highly regulated industry. The FDA would never allow such a drug to come to market without enough clinical trials. Which is why the "small startup pharmaceutical company" do not exist. There is a reason why 99.9% of drugs are developed and owned by multi-billion dollar drug companies.

Stop saying Helix didn't test their product without any proof. There have been people who ran this product without issues. The thread linked by doubles has 2 people reporting vacuum pump cover issues, that's not a very representative sample size.

Helix is absolutely owning up to this issue, read the other thread. They've stated they're developing a bracket that eliminated the issue with torque and cantilever stresses. Read comment #34 as well, Helix is offering to replace the guy's OD for free due to idle noises. This isn't a company that doesn't stand behind it's product. They very well might offer the bracket for free, calm down and put your pitchfork down until you have more information. Yes, it kinda sucks that the billet part they offer right now is an additional charge, but that's pretty damn standard in the aftermarket scene.

I understand why Helix isn't offering to replace the vacuum pump covers for free. It opens up a huge can of worms if they do that now with such a small sample size. What happens if someone breaks their vacuum pump cover on their own, then buys the OD unit to force someone else to pay for the repairs by saying "oh it broke when I used your product". Unless the vacuum pump cover issues reach the proportions of early N63 issues, I don't think it's justified to call Helix out for not replacing the covers for free.
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