[bm323]

From this link http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicle...sis/index.html it is clear Rich's 5 has dynamic driving control; not clear whether it has dynamic damping control but I believe its packaged together with the dynamic driving control. Based on what Rich said, looks like it does not have adaptive drive (which I believe is VDC as used in terminology above) but handling is fine.

This link is not so clear on the functions of the different technology http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/t...2&view=Chassis

[bimmernic]

bmw323, Rich535d does not have the VDC (see: http://f10.5post.com/forums/showpost...4&postcount=19 ). He has the sports automatic transmission, which includes the dynamic driving control, activated by the toggle switch you see next to the gear shift. However, there would be no "comfort" mode, which is only for VDC/Dynamic Damping Control equipped F10s.

[bm323]

Originally Posted by nfnc

bmw323, Rich535d does not have the VDC (see: http://f10.5post.com/forums/showpost...4&postcount=19 ). He has the sports automatic transmission, which includes the dynamic driving control, activated by the toggle switch you see next to the gear shift. However, there would be no "comfort" mode, which is only for VDC/Dynamic Damping Control equipped F10s.

hi, I don't think the 2TB Sport automatic transmission includes 223 dynamic driving control but I may be wrong. 2TB Sport automatic transmission is an inexpensive option, costing about euro 270.

I think the term VDC (which should be short for variable damping control?) may have been used incorrectly at times in this thread. I think Rich meant to say that his car did not have adaptive drive when he said that his does not have VDC (?)

I think dynamic driving control has to be ordered with dynamic damping control because it is together in one option numbered 223?

http://f10.5post.com/forums/showpost...4&postcount=19

My guess

[bimmernic]

Yes, the terminology used has been quite confusing.

As for Dynamic Driving Control, see page 26 of the Euro catalogue:

"Dynamic Driving Control (in conjunction with 8-speed sports automatic transmission, Integral Active Steering, Adaptive Drive or Dynamic Damping Control)"

It would appear that Dynamic Driving Control is included if any of the four options are selected.

The toggle switch (marked "Sport/Normal") is to enable the driver to switch between the sport and normal modes for the sports automatic transmission. I understand that the "Sport" mode changes the shift pattern (faster shift times and at a higher engine speed), the throttle map and reduces the power steering assist, giving rise to a "heavier" steering feel. It is unclear as to whether the DSC settings are altered as well or if there is a Sport+ mode. What is clear, though, is that there would be no impact upon the damper settings for standard, non-adaptive, suspensions. See this photo posted by Rich535d:



For cars equipped with VDC/dynamic damping control/adaptive dampers (however it is called), the toggle switch will have "Sport/Comfort" instead of "Sport/Normal" marked on it. See below:



In such a case, the switch will have an impact upon the damper settings, amongst other settings.

The PML option list is not clear on the above. Then again, Hi Fi Pro is stated as a Logic 7 when it utilises Dirac Live techoology, unless the F10 has been "decontented" for the local market and equipped with a Logic 7 system instead

At approx EUR 588 (SGD1,100), the sports leather steering wheel (255) together with the sports automatic transmission (2TB) would appear to be the lowest cost but best value option, given its impact on the driving characteristics. YMMV.

[bm323]

Thanks, the base 535i in Singapore has the sports leather steering wheel (255) together with the sports automatic transmission (2TB) but it does not have the dynamic drive, dynamic damping or adaptive drive. These 3 are options; the first 2 as 1 option and all 3 as a different option.

I need to check whether adaptive drive is a "must have" when the other 2 has been included in my option list, ie how does the car drive with the other 2 without adaptive drive. The addition of adaptive drive is costly.

http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=369498

[gorban]

Originally Posted by bm323

Thanks, the base 535i in Singapore has the sports leather steering wheel (255) together with the sports automatic transmission (2TB) but it does not have the dynamic drive, dynamic damping or adaptive drive. These 3 are options; the first 2 as 1 option and all 3 as a different option.

I need to check whether adaptive drive is a "must have" when the other 2 has been included in my option list, ie how does the car drive with the other 2 without adaptive drive. The addition of adaptive drive is costly.

http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=369498

There seems to be a lot of confusion going on here so I will try to straighten things out here:

1. The sports automatic 2TB always comes with Dynamic Driving Control (DDC) which can be set in either normal or sports mode. The regular autobox does not come with DDC. DDC affects the transmission and steering in this case.

2. Variable Damper Control (VDC), which is called Electronic Damper Control (EDC) on some markets, always come with Dynamic Driving Control. In this case the driver can choose from the following modes: Comfort, Normal, Sport and Sport+. The VDC is also available with a manual gearbox or the regular autobox (option 205).

3. Adaptive drive includes both Dynamic Driving Control, Variable Damper Control and active roll stabilization. This is only available for 535i, 550i and 530d with either manual or automatic transmissions.

[bm323]

Originally Posted by gorban

There seems to be a lot of confusion going on here so I will try to straighten things out here:

1. The sports automatic 2TB always comes with Dynamic Driving Control (DDC) which can be set in either normal or sports mode. The regular autobox does not come with DDC. DDC affects the transmission and steering in this case.

2. Variable Damper Control (VDC), which is called Electronic Damper Control (EDC) on some markets, always come with Dynamic Driving Control. In this case the driver can choose from the following modes: Comfort, Normal, Sport and Sport+. The VDC is also available with a manual gearbox or the regular autobox (option 205).

3. Adaptive drive includes both Dynamic Driving Control, Variable Damper Control and active roll stabilization. This is only available for 535i, 550i and 530d with either manual or automatic transmissions.

I'm confused now, but thanks for your post, gorban. I understand points 2 and 3. I have difficulty with your point 1. Does the sports automatic 2TB always have the sport/normal button or toggle (as in Rich's car)? I was told by my sales agent that the sport/normal button is available only if I pay for dynamic driving control ie dynamic driving control means having the button. He also told me that the sports automatic 2TB does not mean that it has dynamic driving control (?)

But I can understand that he may be mistaken innocently as the f10 will be in Singapore only next week. Looks like nfnc is right in that the 8 speed automatic sports transmission would mean that it has dynamic driving control.

[bm323]

From page 17 of the f10 catalogue, it suggests that the speed sports automatic transmission option is different from the dynamic driving control option? http://f10.5post.com/goodiesforyou/f10-catalog.pdf

-speed sports automatic
transmission Steptronic, with
sports mode for a particularly sporty
drive and shift paddles on the sports
leather steering wheel.

-Dynamic Driving Control allows
the driver to select Normal or Sports
mode at the push of a button. Comfort
Mode in conjunction with Adaptive
Drive or Dynamic Damping Control.

[gorban]

Originally Posted by bm323

From page 17 of the f10 catalogue, it suggests that the speed sports automatic transmission option is different from the dynamic driving control option? http://f10.5post.com/goodiesforyou/f10-catalog.pdf

-speed sports automatic
transmission Steptronic, with
sports mode for a particularly sporty
drive and shift paddles on the sports
leather steering wheel.

-Dynamic Driving Control allows
the driver to select Normal or Sports
mode at the push of a button. Comfort
Mode in conjunction with Adaptive
Drive or Dynamic Damping Control.

According to the swedish pricelist and ordering guide the sports automatic 2TB includes dynamic driving control, and so do VDC and adaptive drive.

Dynamic driving control is not available as a stand alone option. I have driven an F10 530d with sports automatic and no VDC and no adaptive drive. This car had the toggle button next to the gear stick with the normal and sport options. When toggling between normal and sports you could sense that the steering became more heavy in the sports mode.

[bm323]

Originally Posted by gorban

According to the swedish pricelist and ordering guide the sports automatic 2TB includes dynamic driving control, and so do VDC and adaptive drive.

Dynamic driving control is not available as a stand alone option. I have driven an F10 530d with sports automatic and no VDC and no adaptive drive. This car had the toggle button next to the gear stick with the normal and sport options. When toggling between normal and sports you could sense that the steering became more heavy in the sports mode.

Thanks gorban, the feedback on your test drive car is just what I need. Can you please let me know how was the handling of the f10, and whether there was perceptible body roll when taking bends (as it does not have adaptive drive)? How was it without VDC and how did it handle compared to the E60?

Is the sport/normal mode activated using the toggle button (next to the gear shift) only and that it cannot be activated using the paddle on the steering wheel?

[gorban]

Originally Posted by bm323

Thanks gorban, the feedback on your test drive car is just what I need. Can you please let me know how was the handling of the f10, and whether there was perceptible body roll when taking bends (as it does not have adaptive drive)? How was it without VDC and how did it handle compared to the E60?

Is the sport/normal mode activated using the toggle button (next to the gear shift) only and that it cannot be activated using the paddle on the steering wheel?

I have done one test drive in the F10 530d so far and it lasted for about 45 minutes. I drove on the highway and on some smaller twisting roads but it was hard to take in all those impressions in such a short time. The car handles very well and is more silent than the E60. I felt that the steering was a bit on the loose side in the normal setting. Especially at higher speeds. I managed to get the car up close to 200 km/h and then the car felt unstable in the normal setting. In sports mode everything was ok. It is worth mentioning that I had a strong crosswind when I did this test.

As for body roll, I would have to do some more testing. I was quite busy trying out the sports automatic with the paddles and the dynamic driving control. By the way, the automatic also has the normal and sports/manual mode. I am not quite sure how that relates to the DDC sports mode but you can set them independently. I also read in another forum that with the DDC in sports mode you can do some configuration between the steering and the gearbox settings. There's quite a bit of change from the E60 with all this new technology. Now I would like to try out a car with the dynamic dampers as well and find out how good the comfort mode is.

[bm323]

Thanks gorban, good feedback. I suppose the DDC in sport tightened the steering and chassis as mentioned in http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicle...trol.html#more so car felt more stable.

[bm323]

i'm still pondering over this DDC, VDC and adaptive drive.

Different countries may bundle options together. But from the f10 catalogue at page 26 (mentioned by nfnc) http://f10.5post.com/goodiesforyou/f10-catalog.pdf

(a) adaptive drive where available (as it's not so for all the models) has to be combined with dynamic driving and dynamic damping

(b) dynamic damping can be a stand alone option (for some models only), but I think it's bundled with dynamic driving in many countries

(c) dynamic driving is an option (ie not a standard in any model) but not a stand alone option, and has to be combined with any of the following: speed sports automatic transmission, Integral Active Steering, Adaptive Drive or Dynamic Damping Control

(d) 8 speed sports automatic transmission can be a stand alone option.

[carl_d]

Originally Posted by bm323

i'm still pondering over this DDC, VDC and adaptive drive.

Different countries may bundle options together. But from the f10 catalogue at page 26 (mentioned by nfnc) http://f10.5post.com/goodiesforyou/f10-catalog.pdf

(a) adaptive drive where available (as it's not so for all the models) has to be combined with dynamic driving and dynamic damping

(b) dynamic damping can be a stand alone option (for some models only), but I think it's bundled with dynamic driving in many countries

(c) dynamic driving is an option (ie not a standard in any model) but not a stand alone option, and has to be combined with any of the following: speed sports automatic transmission, Integral Active Steering, Adaptive Drive or Dynamic Damping Control

(d) 8 speed sports automatic transmission can be a stand alone option.

Seems to me, if you want bigger wheels (more than 17" non-RFT) then you will need VDC. VDC may also force/need other options depening on country and engine type.

[bm323]

Originally Posted by carl_d

Seems to me, if you want bigger wheels (more than 17" non-RFT) then you will need VDC. VDC may also force/need other options depening on country and engine type.

Yes, seems like it.

And to upgrade from -speed automatic transmission Steptronic (electronic gear selector switch, Adaptive Transmission Management) to -speed sports automatic transmission Steptronic with gearshift paddles on the steering wheel, the costs are only euro 280. This upgrade requires the sports steering wheel, an additional euro 260.

So I really doubt that the speed sport transmission would automatically include dynamic drive which tightens the chassis and steering wheel. The euro 280 upgrade imo is only for the paddle shifts.

[ksquare]

Originally Posted by bm323

i'm still pondering over this DDC, VDC and adaptive drive.

Different countries may bundle options together. But from the f10 catalogue at page 26 (mentioned by nfnc) http://f10.5post.com/goodiesforyou/f10-catalog.pdf

(a) adaptive drive where available (as it's not so for all the models) has to be combined with dynamic driving and dynamic damping

(b) dynamic damping can be a stand alone option (for some models only), but I think it's bundled with dynamic driving in many countries

(c) dynamic driving is an option (ie not a standard in any model) but not a stand alone option, and has to be combined with any of the following: speed sports automatic transmission, Integral Active Steering, Adaptive Drive or Dynamic Damping Control

(d) 8 speed sports automatic transmission can be a stand alone option.

I believe you are right on the above.

Here in HK, F10s come with Sports auto transmission as standard (regardless of model). And i have sought confirmation that this does not include Dynamic Driving Control (the normal/sports button). Costs HK$28K just to have this option. I believe that pressing this button from normal to sports+, the chassis tightens as well as a heavier steering feel and much faster acceleration response. I tried this with the GT.

[bm323]

Originally Posted by ksquare

I believe you are right on the above.

Here in HK, F10s come with Sports auto transmission as standard (regardless of model). And i have sought confirmation that this does not include Dynamic Driving Control (the normal/sports button). Costs HK$28K just to have this option. I believe that pressing this button from normal to sports+, the chassis tightens as well as a heavier steering feel and much faster acceleration response. I tried this with the GT.

thanks for the info, ksquare

ps for a pricey HK$28k what is the dynamic drive coupled with? dynamic damping? This is about the price for dynamic damping and dynamic drive in Singapore.

[ksquare]

Originally Posted by bm323

thanks for the info, ksquare

ps for a pricey HK$28k what is the dynamic drive coupled with? dynamic damping? This is about the price for dynamic damping and dynamic drive in Singapore.

This is just for the dynamic drive. dynamic damping is a separate option (addition of the comfort setting). options are expensive here as there's an 85% tax.

looks like i'll have to bite the bullet and get it. its one key feature of the f10 and seems so absurd that its bmwhk leaves this out, esp on the higher end models.

[bm323]

Originally Posted by ksquare

This is just for the dynamic drive. dynamic damping is a separate option (addition of the comfort setting). options are expensive here as there's an 85% tax.

looks like i'll have to bite the bullet and get it. its one key feature of the f10 and seems so absurd that its bmwhk leaves this out, esp on the higher end models.

Meaning the base f10 for all models in Hong Kong have 8 speed sports auto transmission (and not the 8 speed auto transmission) and it is without the normal/sport toggle button next to the gear shift? And HK$28k gives dynamic drive only ie the normal/sport toggle button? How much is it for the dynamic damping option in Hong Kong, and is it for the dynamic damping only? And costs of the adaptive drive option?

ps have you test driven a f10 without the dynamic drive comparing with one which has? also, how was the f10 without dynamic damping?

[bm323]

Originally Posted by nfnc

At approx EUR 588 (SGD1,100), the sports leather steering wheel (255) together with the sports automatic transmission (2TB) would appear to be the lowest cost but best value option, given its impact on the driving characteristics. YMMV.

nfnc and LMOR may be right here as, using the bmwuk configurator, the toggle button appears when the sports leather steering wheel (255) together with the sports automatic transmission (2TB) are chosen

http://www.bmw.co.uk/bmwuk/ecom4/fra...-bmwuk,00.html

[Rich535d]

Originally Posted by nfnc

bmw323, Rich535d does not have the VDC (see: http://f10.5post.com/forums/showpost...4&postcount=19 ). He has the sports automatic transmission, which includes the dynamic driving control, activated by the toggle switch you see next to the gear shift. However, there would be no "comfort" mode, which is only for VDC/Dynamic Damping Control equipped F10s.

This is correct; I do not have variable dampers. I have a button next to the gear selector that changes from 'normal' to 'sport' to 'sport +'; the latter deactivates DTC, but none change suspension - only steering feel and transmission

[bm323]

Originally Posted by Rich535d

This is correct; I do not have variable dampers. I have a button next to the gear selector that changes from 'normal' to 'sport' to 'sport +'; the latter deactivates DTC, but none change suspension - only steering feel and transmission

hi Rich, from below, the chassis tightens with dynamic drive in sport mode. Is the suspension not affected?

Dynamic Driving Control.
How would you like to drive today? Dynamic Driving Control, fitted as standard, gives you total control to meet your or your passengers' needs in the BMW 5 Series Sedan.
A touch of the paddle next to the gearshift lever changes the level of driving pleasure from NORMAL to SPORT: the engine responds more spontaneously to the accelerator and the eight-speed transmission Steptronic lets the engine rev high before quickly changing up a gear. At the same time the steering and chassis tighten. Touch the paddle again to enter the SPORT + mode where the Dynamic Stability Control allows controlled drifting to the limit.

The currently active mode is permanently displayed underneath the speedometer, and in the SPORT mode the drive train and chassis settings can be quickly and individually configured using the iDrive Controller for dynamic driving on badly surfaced roads for example.

The COMFORT mode is available with Dynamic Damping Control which provides both the driver and passengers with maximum comfort on longer journeys.

http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicle...trol.html#more

ps But you're probably right cos using the bmwuk configurator, the addition of the sport steering wheel, and upgrade from 8 speed auto to 8 speed sport auto costs only about sterling 220. From the configurator, it appears that 8 speed auto only will not have dynamic drive.

But if so, I've a problem with ksquare's posts above

Originally Posted by ksquare

I believe you are right on the above.

Here in HK, F10s come with Sports auto transmission as standard (regardless of model). And i have sought confirmation that this does not include Dynamic Driving Control (the normal/sports button). Costs HK$28K just to have this option. I believe that pressing this button from normal to sports+, the chassis tightens as well as a heavier steering feel and much faster acceleration response. I tried this with the GT.

Originally Posted by ksquare

This is just for the dynamic drive. dynamic damping is a separate option (addition of the comfort setting). options are expensive here as there's an 85% tax.

looks like i'll have to bite the bullet and get it. its one key feature of the f10 and seems so absurd that its bmwhk leaves this out, esp on the higher end models.